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unmerged(360582)

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I wanted to add my 2 cents on this. I've consulted with many, many game development firms of all sizes from the very big (1000+ employees) to the very small (2-3 people) and help them implement sound development practices based on well known software development methodologies, and after waiting a while for this game to come out it raises serious questions about how the company operates it's development side of the business.

I can forgive the fact that a bad upload went out to Steam. I question using Steam at all but they have a solid reputation as a game delivery platform, so that's fine.

This part here is unacceptable:

**Thanks to various factors we are now sitting on top of a pile of blown apart code and unstable features**

Blown apart code...? Unstable features!?!?! In any given industry where software is being built, and games are a form of software, the code is the lifeblood of your business, the single most important asset you posses. There's no reason, and no excuse, for a team of developers to ever be sitting on top of a pile of blown apart code no matter what stage of development or what crises/meltdown has occurred. When using even the most basic and limited tools and practices of change management (eg; an SCM system) an established baseline at each milestone is preserved allowing the shop to roll back to the that last known stable milestone in the event of a catastrophe, as what appears to have occurred here.

So what has had to have happened is:

1.) Kerberos are not following even basic process of proper software development
2.) If they are and have been maintaining baselines (eg; daily, weekly, backups of a stable codebase) then they have not been following even the basic process of proper design and practice which demands a stable code base at all times (you're Head revision or Mainline if you will) with unstable changes kept in isolation (eg; branches) until proper testing and integration can be performed. So at no time should there ever be a pile of blown apart code and unstable features, not on the first day of development, not on the last day or any time in between!

What bothers me is not the initial mistake, being involved in operations like this many times myself you know that things happen, not being able to recover instantly due to what I can sense is an amateurish approach to change management, lax standards for design and practices, that's not forgivable and suggests and larger more serious issue that won't be corrected in a flurry of code-and-fix development as opposed to the adoption of a proper practices.

The days of Cowboy coding are long over and no gamedev shop will last for long with the approach. My suggestion, hire a consultant, adopt Scrum for project management, refer to XP practices for proper design recommendations, and implement the proper tools and utilities necessary to ensure it would be impossible for something like this to ever happen again in the future.
 

Blackwarder

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Yes yes, blah blah blah, you and your expertise are awesome...

Did you really needed to start a new thread for this crap when there are tons of other threads just like this?

Warder
 

City Builder

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I only hope that they keep backup copies outside of their office so you know... In case a meteor should strike their office there is a copy of that blown apart code and unstable features someplace safe.

It only comes to mind after reading something briefly on the net about a developer who had their laptop stolen that had their game code on it and they didn't have any backups outside of that laptop.
 

unmerged(400937)

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Kerberos coding staff is five guys working more than twelve hours a day for quite a while, apparently. This may decrease their ability to follow procedure correctly.
 

Agent.nihilist

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Mecron is dramatic and often does use hyperbole to a small extent. The blown out code is in reference to them having to remove several game features right before release and the code issues that caused (most of my CTD errors are reference not found crashes). I do agree with you in principle(I'm a do it right or don't do it at all kinda guy myself), however I think you are reading a bit too much into his words here.
 

unmerged(400937)

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The smaller you are the more important it is to follow procedure as you have to do more with less.

yeah, i know; i wasn't saying they SHOULDN'T have followed process, I was saying that they might not have, and if so that was probably due to exhaustion and overwork
 

unmerged(201913)

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Two Words... "Flame Bait" nothing to see here folks move along, just another pointles post going wah wah wah im so great, i know everyting etc.

Seriously . there as been enough posts, kerberos know they did wrong, they have said asmuch, and apologised for it. there is no need for people like you to keep trying to fan the flames. if your not happy get a refund and leave. so the rest of us to try and help make the game great again and enjoy playing it.
 
Last edited:

unmerged(360582)

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Apperantly he already know whats the problem so why don't he give a community service and go give them an hand for free?

Warder

Free hand, start your quest to better development practices here:
http://www.cmcrossroads.com/bradapp/acme/

Than go to Amazon and buy Schwaber's book on Scrum:
http://www.amazon.com/Agile-Project...993X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1320254711&sr=8-1

And read Fowler on the question of Design: http://www.martinfowler.com/articles/designDead.html

These are good places to start. Test automation is next (unit testing, not functional) and build/release management after that.
 

Acularius

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They do say Hindsight is 20/20, I wish I had hindsight for my regular vision.

Edit: What I mean to say is that knowing the problems they faced now, they will probably adopt some of these practices to ensure a better game in the next development cycle.
I'd imagine it is similar in the improvements in game testing done by Paradox for their games.
HOI3: Bad release, lets be honest.
Victoria 2: You can play the game, still somewhat buggy but it was fair better off than HOI3 on release.
Crusader Kings 2: Wait and see at the moment.
 

unmerged(360582)

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Two Words... "Flame Bait" nothing to see here folks move along, just another pointles post going wah wah wah im so great, i know everyting etc.

Seriously . there as been enough posts, kerberos know they did wrong, they have said asmuch, and apologised for it. there is no need for people like you to keep trying to fan the flames. if your not hapy get a refund and leave. so the rest of us to try and help make the game great again and enjoy playing it.

That ignores the question of deeper systemic problem that will lead to continuous problems of this nature, even if the next one isn't exactly the same something will happen again along these lines.
 

unmerged(402301)

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Kerberos coding staff is five guys working more than twelve hours a day for quite a while, apparently. This may decrease their ability to follow procedure correctly.

Apparently not according to Mecron:
As much as the team wants to throw themselves at this like crazy people, I am not going to ok that.
 

unmerged(400937)

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Apparently not according to Mecron:

if you read the rest of that post, you see the reason that's the case NOW is because they were working more than twelve hour days BEFORE the launch, which is when we were talking about.
 

unmerged(402301)

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The reply I quoted said nothing about "before" only "Kerberos coding staff is five guys working more than twelve hours a day for quite a while, apparently. This may decrease their ability to follow procedure correctly."

Should have said "Kerberos coding staff is five guys who were working more than twelve hours a day for quite a while, apparently. This may have decreased their ability to follow procedure correctly."

Also, quoting Mecron from his own letter, in the context OF those five guys working 12 hour shifts when the reply I quote wasnt clear on the timeline they were talking about, isnt out of context.