How nomadic empires could work in Stellaris

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mudcrabmerchant

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EDIT: I meant to post this in the Suggestions forum, but posted it here by accident. My apologies to the mods if they need to move it.

I like the idea of space nomads. Lots of people do. But how could they work in Stellaris, a game based on static planet-based empires?

The following five conditions need to be met for Nomads to work in the game:

1. Nomads need to use the same basic mechanics as settled empires.
2. There needs to be a reason for Nomads to migrate between systems.
3. There needs to be a reason for settled empires to not want them in their space.
4. There need to be ways for nomads to make themselves wanted in settled space, but with limits.
5. Nomads need to fit into the same mid-endgame goal structure as settled empires - exercising control over areas of space, and bringing themselves into competition with other empires over control of space.

There are solutions for every problem, and each brings with it fun and interesting gameplay possibilities, which would make nomads a fun alternative to settled empires.

1. Instead of planets, Nomads would use worldships, which function like small but mobile planets. Each would have 5-9 pops, with one larger capital worldship. Each tile starts empty, but the first level of each resource building would be cheaper and more effective for Nomads.

Colonized worlds start with innate advantages; each newly built worldship would have a credits, mineral, food, or tech bonus, derived from the equivalent of the Planetary Admin building on the center tile. Food would be shared throughout all ships in the same fleet, allowing specialization.

Selecting a worldship would bring up the same kind of interface as for planets. Each ship would have the same functionality as a spaceport, including ship construction, with the same interface being used. They would share some modules with normal spaceports, but also have unique Nomad modules.

2. An elegant and logical way to keep Nomads nomadic is to make it impossible for migrant fleets to produce minerals on their own. They have to take minerals from whatever system they’re in, and there has to be a limit to how much they can take before having to move on. Mineral buildings on worldships would just be storage - which would naturally be lower for Nomads, again encouraging migration.

E.G. the Nomad equivalent of a construction ship (rename to salvager?) would be able to perform something like a research project on any asteroid or uninhabited planet with resources; when complete, it would give a lump sum in minerals to the Nomads, and apply a modifier to the asteroid or planet preventing salvage for X years, and reducing resource output from that source for any settled empire for the same amount of time.

To encourage constant movement even when not building new ships or modules, there should be a chance for resource buildings on Nomad ships to break, requiring repair.

Points 3, 4, and 5 will be in the next post.
 
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Philthy

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I like the idea of space nomads. Lots of people do. But how could they work in Stellaris, a game based on static planet-based empires?

The following five conditions need to be met for Nomads to work in the game:

1. Nomads need to use the same basic mechanics as settled empires.
2. There needs to be a reason for Nomads to migrate between systems.
3. There needs to be a reason for settled empires to not want them in their space.
4. There need to be ways for nomads to make themselves wanted in settled space, but with limits.
5. Nomads need to fit into the same mid-endgame goal structure as settled empires - exercising control over areas of space, and bringing themselves into competition with other empires over control of space.

There are solutions for every problem, and each brings with it fun and interesting gameplay possibilities, which would make nomads a fun alternative to settled empires.

1. Instead of planets, Nomads would use worldships, which function like small but mobile planets. Each would have 5-9 pops, with one larger capital worldship. Each tile starts empty, but the first level of each resource building would be cheaper and more effective for Nomads.

Colonized worlds start with innate advantages; each newly built worldship would have a credits, mineral, food, or tech bonus, derived from the equivalent of the Planetary Admin building on the center tile. Food would be shared throughout all ships in the same fleet, allowing specialization.

Selecting a worldship would bring up the same kind of interface as for planets. Each ship would have the same functionality as a spaceport, including ship construction, with the same interface being used. They would share some modules with normal spaceports, but also have unique Nomad modules.

2. An elegant and logical way to keep Nomads nomadic is to make it impossible for migrant fleets to produce minerals on their own. They have to take minerals from whatever system they’re in, and there has to be a limit to how much they can take before having to move on. Mineral buildings on worldships would just be storage - which would naturally be lower for Nomads, again encouraging migration.

E.G. the Nomad equivalent of a construction ship (rename to salvager?) would be able to perform something like a research project on any asteroid or uninhabited planet with resources; when complete, it would give a lump sum in minerals to the Nomads, and apply a modifier to the asteroid or planet preventing salvage for X years, and reducing resource output from that source for any settled empire for the same amount of time.

To encourage constant movement even when not building new ships or modules, there should be a chance for resource buildings on Nomad ships to break, requiring repair.

Points 3, 4, and 5 will be in the next post.

I generally like this. They should be able to put down frontier outpost like things, even if weaker. Basically star systems that are their own stomping grounds. This would be expensive, but the worldships would spread area of influence/border, I assume?
 
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Bob_Herzog

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I had them requestion an ocean planet of me recently. And I thought why not. Now some guys with desert preference are hating to live there :D. Meanwhile the nomad fleet send me a message that they are heading out of the galaxy (so noone is ever going to pick that pure guys who all can't swim of that planet).
 

mudcrabmerchant

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3. As described above, settled empires will lose resource gathering efficiency in space used by Nomads. To make things worse for Nomads in settled space, they should also provide an unhappiness modifier to all pops in any settled empire that they’re passing through, caused by uneasiness at having a huge fleet of shiftless ravenous aliens near your home. The larger a Nomad fleet, the greater the unhappiness penalty (and the more resources they need to consume).

4. Nomads should have to negotiate to stay in the space of an empire they don’t want to fight. Things they can offer should include:
-Offering pops to settle on the settled worlds. These pops will have high happiness due to being gracious guests, and could have special engineering and mineral bonuses.
-Building maintenance stations. These act as an extra space station around any planet, and provide faster repair to friendly ships, as well as engineering research; they could also house a handful of migrant pops working for the host empire.
-Forming a defensive alliance; the migrants are given formal access, and vow to defend the borders of the empire while inside those borders.

5. In the mid to late game, when empty space disappears and settled empires are forced into contact with each other, Nomadic empires face a similar problem. No matter what, they have to trespass.

At this point, Nomads have a choice: Secure long-term allies who allow them to stay in their space (similar to the Pacifist or Xenophile federation builder), or subjugate weaker empires and force them to let you stay (similar to the militaristic or xenophobic expansionist). Both present interesting balance problems and gameplay possibilities.

It would destroy game balance if a settled empire could support a nomadic empire of the same power, entirely within its borders. Essentially, you'd get a single empire that punches twice above its weight. To prevent this, a nomadic empire of a given size, in terms of what size of fleet it can support, should cause too many problems (unhappiness and mineral consumption) to keep around in a settled empire of similar power. So, if you want a Nomad as part of your alliance, you will either need to keep them small, keep them migrating across multiple alliance members, or have them conducting regular campaigns outside of the alliance's space.

Militarist Nomads should be able to get more minerals out of a given area of space, but face a higher risk because they won't have a friendly empire to hide in. When a Nomad makes another empire their tributary, it would be a closer relationship than between settled overlords and their subjects, and should be similar to the early days of real life nomads setting up over a conquered empire - they become a military aristocracy, preventing the natives from having strong military capability themselves, and letting the settled populace live in peace as long as they pay their taxes/tribute (in this case, a very large percentage of their mineral income). Instead of maintenance stations, Nomads would be able to build occupation stations above each conquered world, that would support a handful of Nomad pops, and provide repair to Nomad fleets that are away from the worldships.

So, in the late game, you will have a layer of Nomad empires existing along and above the layer of settled empires. Some will have a mutualistic relationship with the settled layer, and others will be highly parasitic. It will naturally work out that a given area of space can only support so many Nomads, and so Nomad empires will naturally come into conflict with each other, as well as with settled empires.

I'll talk about some cool flavor possibilities in other posts, but this is the end of the main block. If you have criticisms or refinements of these ideas, please post and discuss them. If we can figure out how Nomads could fit into Stellaris as player empires, I think we have a better chance of seeing them in a future expansion.
 
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mudcrabmerchant

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Of course, Nomads have to start somewhere, and I think it could be cool if their homeworlds were represented in-game. Depending on your government choice, your people would have different reasons for leaving their world behind, and the homeworld would be left in a different state.

Militarists fought each other to death in a climactic nuclear war. The "victorious" faction had to leave the planet behind in order to survive, and the planet is left as a tomb world, populated by mutated re-pre-sentient versions of the player species.

Spiritualists embark on a great spiritual voyage through the stars, with primitivist dissidents staying behind and forming a Medieval pre-space civilization on the homeworld.

Materialists are a small group of scientists and philosophers who decided that they didn't want to live on their planet anymore. Due to the massive braindrain, the homeworld is left permanently in the early space age.

Pacifists are escaping a wartorn world; although it isn't as bad as the Militarist planet, as they leave, it has literally bombed itself back into the Stone Age.

Non-ideological democracies, oligarchies, and empires ruined their homeworld with shortsighted economic policies, and find themselves fleeing total ecological collapse. The planet is left as a barren or toxic world (honestly, I'd rather the planet still have pops, but I couldn't think of a good alternative storyline for their exodus).
 
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