How much to Lend-Lease?

[Pragmatic]

I tried sending Nationalist China some Lend-Lease (fuel, guns, supplies, arty, trucks, light tanks and some medium tanks, even fighters/CAS/TAC).

And China still got crushed by Japan. Early on, they pushed back the naval invasions of their ports, so I thought I was making a difference. But eventually, they lost their ports and got crushed.

I'm not sure if I wasn't giving them enough (e.g., I'd send 300 fuel, 600 guns, and 50-150 of the remaining stuff), or if I should have included Communist China and some of the warlords in my largess (to protect China's flanks).

What is an adequate amount to give China a fighting chance?

 

[Chester Nimitz]

If you figure it out, please let us know, lol. I've been giving China similar amounts, and I'm not sure it's helping at all.

 

[Pragmatic]

I think that the problem is, we're giving them enough to form one or two divisions (one infantry, one armored) per month. And it takes a while for them to be trained (all while being attacked by Japan). And China needs to create and use its XP to create better divisions.

Next time, I'm going to try dumping a bunch all at once, at the start of their war with Japan, so they have time to build an army.

 

[Paul.Ketcham]

Convoys and rifles are the only things they can make use of early on; they don't even have artillery or support equipment researched in 1936, so they have a long way to go in actually upgrading divisions to use most of this equipment (although they'd probably manage to get artillery into them, tanks are a bit of a stretch to even get into a template let alone trained into the field). If China is short on convoys you'll have to remove the other equipment from the lend-lease even if convoys are included (as they don't count towards convoy requirements, but will still be delayed due to lack of convoys due to the way the lend-lease system works).

Aircraft are also pretty useful (as they can use them immediately) but CAS aren't very good in China due to the massive ranges involved and the fact that China lacks airfields (many of which are also vulnerable, besides being horribly spread out). Tactical bombers are better in this regard due to their vastly-superior range.

 

[porta80]

I normally send 40000 guns at once and all old planes with some fuel. Sometimes they still lose, but i dont care its more for me to get army/air xp as soviets.

 

[Bunnytob]

10-20% of your gun production, generally.

 

[nicholas70]

All you should really be sending China is basic infantry equipment and maybe some support equipment. I wouldn't worry about sending them anything else as doing so will only create a convoy shortage causing delays in China getting whatever you send. The best way to help china is to send forces to actually help them out. You should be able to get at least 8 divisions in there to assist them. If you can encircle and destroy some of Japans assests this will really help slow down Japan's conquests. It used to be you could actually kick Japan back into the ocean this way, but not sure if this is still possible anymore since they've been buffed and the AI improved.

 

[Dan1109]

This unfortunately is an EPIC oversight by PDS from day 1 of the lend lease implementation - forget about allied AI asking you for the right thing that they need, why can't humans see the allied stockpile?

Well, in Expert AI, you can.

There is a diplomatic mission which will inspect an ally's stockpile. It doesn't work perfectly, you can only see if the values are positive or not, but the most important value is seeing their % of fielded equipment. It may show 0 for stockpiles of anti-tank, but if they are at 56% fielded, then you KNOW the ally needs them. If Inf Equipment is at 95%, then na, they can do without unless you have loads. Also, you can see their fuel stock pile which is the single most important thing. As USA, I feed the UK until their fuel stays at +90%.

 

[Fulmen]

10-20% of your gun production, generally.

Don't use % of production, it's impractical and ignores stockpiles. It's much more efficient to send in bulk, convoys allowing if overseas, and afterwards keep a monthly LL of 1 rifle to ensure you keep getting XP.

 

[ow592]

I'm not sure if I wasn't giving them enough (e.g., I'd send 300 fuel, 600 guns, and 50-150 of the remaining stuff), or if I should have included Communist China and some of the warlords in my largess (to protect China's flanks).

i guess that these numbers are very low
600 guns are enough for 6 infantry battalions and I guess that this is not even enough to compensate the losses they have at the front ... not to think about building new divisions with that
and 300 fuel ist enough for 100 fighters for 15 days if my math is correct (really not sure about that)

the 40000 guns at once from porta80 is a better way of getting some impact in this conflict

 

[Matoro_TBS]

Thousands of rifles, maybe some support equipment and artillery. Stuff that can be used to create divisions. Quantity is more important than quality.

 

[Chester Nimitz]

So does the lend-lease physically travel over the map, using the recipient's convoys? With Japan controlling the sea areas around China, that would seem to make it hard to get anything in.

Does everything have to be convoyed? Fuel? Aircraft?

Can one send US divisions to China before the US enters the war? If not, then that's of little help to me, since in every game I've played under 1.62, China falls before the US gets in the war.

 

[Dan1109]

So does the lend-lease physically travel over the map, using the recipient's convoys? With Japan controlling the sea areas around China, that would seem to make it hard to get anything in.

Does everything have to be convoyed? Fuel? Aircraft?

Can one send US divisions to China before the US enters the war? If not, then that's of little help to me, since in every game I've played under 1.62, China falls before the US gets in the war.

US is prevented from sending volunteers. There is a decision to allow the "Flying Tigers", but I never get that because I believe you have to take the interventionism route, instead of neutrality act (historical)...but no, for the USA, nothing like GER and SOV where they can send volunteers to JAP/CHI or Spain, getting all sorts of benefits.

It would be too much for the US, to let her get more involved, especially how PDS allows USA to still build up MIC early. - I think USA is at an ok point now, with just enough land XP to be able to do historical things. Up until 1942, all you can afford is you infantry template. By the end of '42 you should have enough for tanks, to help mop up Africa and plan for Invasion of Italy. By the end of '43, have enough for Marines and Paratroopers, for Pacific Island hopping and D-Day.

You have to get involved in Africa and Burma ASAP however, can't wait around.

 

[Warhawg01]

I got the Flying Tigers event as USA going down the Neutrality Act path — I did have an attaché in China for a while, so that may be a requirement.

 

[Pragmatic]

I got the Flying Tigers event as USA going down the Neutrality Act path — I did have an attaché in China for a while, so that may be a requirement.

I got that decision with no attache, I think.

 

[=XIII=Wedge]

US is prevented from sending volunteers. There is a decision to allow the "Flying Tigers", but I never get that because I believe you have to take the interventionism route, instead of neutrality act (historical)...but no, for the USA, nothing like GER and SOV where they can send volunteers to JAP/CHI or Spain, getting all sorts of benefits.

The US will get an event when one of the Chinese factions, picks the Flying Tigers focus as part of the shared Chinese Focus Tree, on historical this will be Nat China.

The US can accept or reject. Nat China having Madame Chiang will increase the likelihood of the AI accepting, but the odds are favourable without.

The US will then have a decision to Dispatch the Flying Tigers which transfers some aircraft and increases the air volunteer limit by +100.

However there is a bug in the US focus tree that never sets the rule to send volunteers when taking the Neutrality Act path, despite the Neurality Act spirit increasing the tension limit requirement for volunteers.

The US is unable to Send Volunteers ever, even with 100% World Tension.

 

[him_15]

Just send them tons of rifles, nothing else.

 

[La Bumm]

When I played the game a while ago, I sent them rifles and arty and china lost nervertheless.

So I had a look, what the AI was doing and I saw that they had about 30k of my rifles in stockpile - but they had no manpower left.
In fact Japan got all my lend leased stuff after their victory.

I am not sure if this is still a problem now, but it seems to me that china dont use its political power for changing their manpower laws.
So they will lose in fact after two or three years of war, no matter what you will send them.

I adressed this issue in the bugforums directly after the launch of Waking the Tiger, but maybe it was overlooked.
As I said, I am not sure if it is still an issue?
Does anybody know?