How much do the Russian winter matter, when invading as Germany?

[foxMiD]

Playing Germany.
I'm having a VERY hard time, deciding when to invade the Soviet Union. I got the tools & tactics etc., so that's all good. I just can't figure out how much the Russian winter actually matter; The impact on my warmachine. Or theirs for that matter.
I use Superior Firepower, and the line "Manpower is precious, bullets are cheap", applies. Manpower is precious to me.
Don't feel obligated to answer the "impact" also, just the winter part
Thank you!!

 

[ramius3443]

Winter has suprisingly little effect, so feel free to launch your blitzkrieg in December if you wish.

 

[kauzer]

Winter has suprisingly little effect, so feel free to launch your blitzkrieg in December if you wish.

Agreed. Weather effects have way too low debuffs. I remember "General frozen" debuff in HoI3 with something like -70% to attack, which made offensive actions allmost impossible.

 

[foxMiD]

Ahh, that is beautiful! Damn, that's a relief
Thank you for the quick answers!

kauzer, with that kinda hardware, how many SSDs do you have? Did you just buy it because you could, or? It's close, but still not necessary for games like these

 

[Louella]

Weather effects have way too low debuffs.

I made a little mod, to test what happens if the effects of weather are made more extreme. Reduces movement and attack by a lot in mud, blizzard, sandstorm etc.

 

[DragonScythe]

At the moment the winter has pretty much no impact on the campaign. However, you really need to pay attention to the mud which comes after the winter. Mud can really put a damper on offensives during the spring in Russia. You won't really be able to attack effectively/efficiently until June.

 

[foxMiD]

I made a little mod, to test what happens if the effects of weather are made more extreme. Reduces movement and attack by a lot in mud, blizzard, sandstorm etc.

How much did you increase it?

At the moment the winter has pretty much no impact on the campaign. However, you really need to pay attention to the mud which comes after the winter. Mud can really put a damper on offensives during the spring in Russia. You won't really be able to attack effectively/efficiently until June.

Yep, don't remember it, but the Russians have a special word for that spring mud.

Ok, so... Winter barely has an effect, but I shouldn't set up my offensive from March till June? Went from square 1 to being ready, but now I'm back at... square 2.

 

[Fabrizioso]

it is disappointing how little snowing or blizzard has an effect. It really only affects aircraft.

 

[Louella]

How much did you increase it?

A Lot.

in my mod, blizzards and sandstorms reduce movement and attack by 90%. mud slows armies down by 75% and aircraft are also more affected.

you can find it here, if you want to try it out. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=910229828

 

[Ancalimé]

A Lot.

in my mod, blizzards and sandstorms reduce movement and attack by 90%. mud slows armies down by 75% and aircraft are also more affected.

you can find it here, if you want to try it out. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=910229828

I like that.

 

[foxMiD]

A Lot.

in my mod, blizzards and sandstorms reduce movement and attack by 90%. mud slows armies down by 75% and aircraft are also more affected.

you can find it here, if you want to try it out. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=910229828

Oh, my! Maybe it should be reversed; Esp. tanks runs just fine on ice though. Mud is a nightmare for everybody. It should have a higher effect, but just a closely remote Russian winter would ruin every invasion.
But they must have changed it A LOT!
Steam "guide", 5/5 stars, 122 ratings;

"How to loose WW2"
1. Play Germany

2. Molotov - Ribbentrop Treaty

3. Attack Russia in Winter

4. FINISHED !

 

[Louella]

Oh, my! Maybe it should be reversed; Esp. tanks runs just fine on ice though.

Yeah, the penalties for cold and extreme cold, and for snow on the ground, are much lower than the penalties for blizzards.

 

[akamahn]

Rasputitsa is the word

 

[Uberbrandon]

Ahh, that is beautiful! Damn, that's a relief
Thank you for the quick answers!

I find it not beautiful! Germany launching Barbarossa too late (to consolidate their gains before winter) was one of the defining moments of the war, and it's a non-factor here. Not good.

 

[Secret Master]

Agreed. Weather effects have way too low debuffs. I remember "General frozen" debuff in HoI3 with something like -70% to attack, which made offensive actions allmost impossible.

Either you were running a mod, or you have rose colored glasses. I ran plenty of Barbarossa attacks that started in the winter without penalties even approaching the kind you describe.

There were (and are) blizzards, which have a substantial impact, but the general weather is not as important as paying attention to supply.

 

[sgt.stickybomb]

It matters a lot. Have you tried moving your tank during mud season? It's an absolute nightmare.

 

[Praetori]

It matters, not just enough to be really noticeable unless the infra is crap. Attrition-wise it's no fun at all but there's not much feedback screaming at you that troops are freezing to death and tanks being lost at alarming rates (attrition warnings would be welcome). And besides the AI doesn't seem to care (again an internal flag for bad attrition and/or speed to be used as a hook to alert players and AI alike would be handy) so there's really no really perceivable slowdowns in operations due to the fact.

 

[Orlunu]

The main problems are a combo of no manpower attrition - your guns can freeze, but your naked troops wandering around Siberia will make it through the winter unless they get shot - and a lack of feedback; a major part of the reason that attrition doesn't impact strategy the way it should seems to simply come from the fact that it's not all too obvious what the major strains are and how to alleviate them.

 

[Dalwin]

Winter has suprisingly little effect, so feel free to launch your blitzkrieg in December if you wish.

I would say that it has little effect in SP games. In MP, it becomes much more significant unless the Russians fail to halt the big initial push.

 

[Secret Master]

there's not much feedback screaming at you that troops are freezing to death and tanks being lost at alarming rates (attrition warnings would be welcome)

Well, there is the theater notification and the units have the attrition skull on them both on the map and on the division list.