How many units in a province?

[gman551]

How is it possible to for a continuous battle line to be formed as e.g. Germany in 1939?

I've gotten a good grasp of everything else about this game but what I don't understand is that corps are generally used in a single province. But there's no way to cover the border with both France and Poland. There just aren't enough units!

This is the big issue I've never figured out with 3 vs 2 and DH AOD.

There weren't like 30 provinces bordering Poland so you could fork a continuous line easily.

Unless the border is covered then they can just flank me, and building 25 corps is almost impossible even at 1936. Even if you build enough units to line up along the border with Poland that will leave france able to strike.


So how many divisions you might use in provinces, I know it depends on the situation. Perhaps someone could tell me about some of the most common situations and how they position their forces.

 

[thexmassteam]

hi
You do not need a corps of 5 div per province.
2 div. per province on Siegfried line is enough, with 2 or 3 div behind just "in case" france try to break trough the Rhine. two corps facing Benelux (maybe a third one if Netherlands have very low neutrality, I'd seen them dow germany sometimes).
For poland a div per province is enough, just stack all your attacking div. where you plan to breakthrough (for exemple 2 div. est and 2 div. west of danzig)

 

[Opanashc]

Number of divisions must be enough to either:
A) Defeat the enemy, by attacking him.
B) Defeat the enemy, by defending from his attack.
If you don't have enough divisions for A, you automatically go to B. If B is also impossible, then you start retreating, while fighting the enemy.
As such, sometimes 1-2 divisions per province are enough. Sometimes, 5 per province is too little. Remember, you do not need to have a uniform line against the enemy. Covering most of the line with a division or two (or three, depending on the enemy), while concentrating on 2-3 spots to break through and break the enemy, is enough.

 

[marxianTJ]

The description that corps occupy one tile is just not correct unless you're going for a static defense (maybe what a France player would go for) lol.

If you have no intention to attack from a province 1-3 divisions is generally enough to hold it. The French AI is a coward so as long as you have *something* resembling a division on the Siegfried line, it typically won't attack.

Against Poland, there's no need to have more than 1 division on every border province that you don't intend to attack from - in fact you *want* them to attack you because it will de-org their units faster and grant some XP to your line divisions! lol.


My rule of thumb, is if I'm fighting a major, I just put a number of divisions equal to the number of places it can be attacked from. So, if a tile can be attacked from 3 different tiles, we'll have at *least* 3 divisions in that tile - unless it's particularly favorable (behind a river, mountains etc) - with at least 1 division in the province behind as a reserve in case I get beat

 

[Pugmak]

Stack a corps (for ease of administration and to be able to "leap frog" your divisions to avoid combat delay) only on the provinces you plan to use for breakthrough. String the divisions of your other corps' between those breakthrough areas as you see fit.

PS. don't stack any armor you wish to use for exploitation right on the front line. Have them one province back so that they can move into and through the breakthrough without having to worry about "spoiling attacks" that can inflict attack delay on your exploitation forces.

 

[Kovax]

The border between GER and FRA has a river which provides some protection along the southern 2/3. One division per province is sufficient against the AI, other than in the few provinces in the north which don't have a river. Still, you have a level or two of fortifications there, so you don't need more than 2 divisions. I generally keep 2-3 divisions a province or two behind the line, to reinforce with if anything gets attacked.

Your border with Poland only needs one division along most of its length (there are even a couple of provinces that you might be able to leave unguarded), so you can concentrate almost half of your army at a couple of key points to make breakthroughs and encirclements.

 

[Laurwin]

historically a division frontage was expected to be about 11km maximum. That is a division should be able to handle that much front, on its own power, with its own troops.

If the terrain is extremely favorable to defender, such as division defending mountain passes against attacker enemy. Then you might be able to get more defensive power, from a single division (because they can use artillery better from the heights advantage and other weapons as well.

Whether it always happened this way, the answer is no. Often with disastrous consequences for the defense, who spreads his forces too thin. The frontline will be too thin with troops oftentimes. This is was in some sense rather important consideration for the German army because not the entire army was motorized or mechanized. Slow troops cannot as easily perform mobile defense, certainly in WW2 context

In WW1 context all armies were quite slow, which meant that it was often impossible to exploit attacks into the enemy's rearguard and flanks...

Slow infantry forces, too thinly spread out, invites the enemy to attack, to pierce, and to encircle your troops.

 

[WSnova]

A good rule of the tumb for me is 2 per province to just hold it.

1 is a bit too fragile and may lose a battle before reinforcements arrive, 3 tries up too many divisions that I might use for real offensives.

Always try to keep some reserve to reinforce though. Even a lightly manned Maginot line can fall if not reinforced.

Of course you COULD be more technical and try to match divisions to what the enemy has, but too much pain to do that for long or numerous fronts. Since defender gets dug in bonus after a while you will always win with everything being equal

 

[ragupasta]

Apologies for the small screenshot. But this is aug 39 just before danzig event in my last game. I created a few more units, but not much from what you get at the start. I chose to upgrade my eastern brigades to motorized inf for the research speed bonus towards mech inf. Now maginot line defence is 2 divisions per province. North of that 1 division per province. Poland 1 division per province apart from a small cluster of motorised and light armour for the breakthrough. More than enough to subdue poland, then move the units west and crush the west. You don't need massive amounts of land forces early on. Build up for barbarossa yeah. but for poland and the low countries, you don't need a hoard.

 

[BrotherJonathan]

You could also try more of a "defense in depth" strategy. This basically means that you have a thinly-defended front line (one or two infantry divisions per province), with armored or motorized divisions posted at key points further back to respond to breakthroughs. In my (rather limited) experience, this works well for large nations like Russia, whose sheer size make garrisoning every province virtually impossible.

 

[Laurwin]

then again, when you divide your tank power up in small pieces, it makes your own tank power weaker than enemy tank power...

crucial terrain, like river crossings and thick forest and thick swamps allows defender to economize on their own forces, which allows to concentrate more forces against other fronts and other enemies.

Then again, in Hoi3 the germans get the very powerful modifier destiny in 1941, which doesn't make counter attacking very good in most cases (human wave attacks just like stalin ordered in 1941 haha)

Except when the russians are able to flank attack the german spearheads from multiple provinces to only one german province.

 

[Von Faulkenstein]

How is it possible to for a continuous battle line to be formed as e.g. Germany in 1939?

I've gotten a good grasp of everything else about this game but what I don't understand is that corps are generally used in a single province. But there's no way to cover the border with both France and Poland. There just aren't enough units!

This is the big issue I've never figured out with 3 vs 2 and DH AOD.

There weren't like 30 provinces bordering Poland so you could fork a continuous line easily.

Unless the border is covered then they can just flank me, and building 25 corps is almost impossible even at 1936. Even if you build enough units to line up along the border with Poland that will leave france able to strike.


So how many divisions you might use in provinces, I know it depends on the situation. Perhaps someone could tell me about some of the most common situations and how they position their forces.

The Poles and French are easy meat, really. For starters, on the Polish front, you don't actually need a continuous line. Schwerpunkt is the name of the game and concentrating your forces into three points of ingress (north, centre and south) will allow you to destroy them in a very short time. Place your holding/reserve units on a 1:2 unit/province ratio (one set of units, usually a pair of infantry divisions, for every two opposing provinces) so you can mop up stragglers or stop naughty little counter-offensives right in their tracks. Use your best breakthrough divisions to punch a line into Polish territory then allow them to spread out like an inkspot, encircling and shattering enemy units as you go along. Each army should eventually link up, though as long as you take VPs you should be alright.

The French will require holding units right up against the Maginot Line whilst you smash your way through the Low Countries. A pair of divisions, or thrice, will suffice for the provinces facing the Maginot Line, infantry only (maybe combined with light armour and/or AT if you're feeling insecure), as the heavy work should be done by your panzertruppe making their way south from Belgium. Once you have penetrated deeply enough, the Frenchies guarding the Line will have no choice but to pull back or be crushed by hammer upon anvil, at which point you are going crush them anyway.

 

[SirArthur]

There are basically two strategies against France. One is to storm the maginot Line from day one on, where the French troops are not mobilized and dig in yet. Put a tank force with your best commanders there and break through a province from different directions.

The other way is to defend not at all. You basically want the French to take Stuttgart and press towards Munich. By the time they have Stuttgart you should be done with Poland. The difference is, the French army is exposed in Germany, you can get a pride bonus and the Maginot Line won't be guarded. Press them hard against the Swiss border and breakthrough around Bitburg.

Both methods don't require a DOW on Belgium or Luxemburg.

When it comes to pure defence the best way against an Ai on normal is to dig in in key positions, best swamp or citys with a river and hold those positions. The enemy has a hard time stor

 

[Kovax]

The two French provinces just above the bend in the river aren't protected by the river, so you only need to deal with the fortifications. I've used around 3-4 divisions in each of the neighboring German provinces, at least one of those divisions in each with an attached ENG brigade, to storm the Maginot Line beginning on the first day of the war. As SirArthur points out, that doesn't give the opposing French units time to get a "dug in" bonus. By attacking the one province from 3 other provinces, they suffer an "outflanked" penalty, and you can pour a LOT of divisions into the fight against one or two of theirs. Combined with a group of TAC bombing by day, and another by night, you can be through the Maginot Line in about a week or less. At that point, fan out and the remaining units will abandon the line rather than risk becoming cut off.

That allows you to keep the Netherlands and Belgium out of the fight, so it's possible to use them as trade partners to maintain a supply of resources, rather than invading them and looting their European capitals for a one-time shot of resources, and then nothing for the rest of the war.

 

[DeclaredYuppie]

I find when I'm building a long line defense in europe, I tend to go with either 2 divisions in the province on the line, or 1 division in the line province and another 1 mobile division behind the line meant to move in to support a group of 3-4 frontline provinces.

If I'm doing 2 divisions, I'll usually do 1 light infantry (3 infantry divisions) and 1 heavy infantry (1 infantry, 1 art, 1 anti-tank). I'll usually pad those out with an extra infantry brigade each as I get later into the game and I'm not worried as much about creating new divisions to cover further lines or building breakthrough forces or so on.

If I'm doing 1 and 1, it'll usually be a 2 inf, 1 art division on the line, with motorized and tank destroyers in the support division.