How many people actually play or played in India?

[CatilinamSum]

As for complaints that AI Dharmic religions never seem to stray out of India... IMO that depends a lot on the start date and what, if anything you are doing in the area. Last time I was playing a Zoroastrian game working to become the Saoshyant, and after beating up Habbari during a Holy War, Pratihara gobbled them up and I was fending off them as much as I was the Abbasids for much of the next century or so.

Yeah, I don't quite get that complaint either. I see Hindus push out of India all the time, with the AI sometimes reaching as far west as Persia.

One complaint I do understand is that nothing else seems to penetrate into India, partially because the Holy Orders are so strong. Thankfully, Paradox is rebalancing the Holy Orders and revising AI behavior in the JD patch.

 

[Ciniod]

Do people just hate India because of the lag it adds, or is there something I'm not getting here?

Personally, I don't remember if it was better for me before India or not so for me that doesnt really matter. I just dont see much of a point to it since it never interacts with the rest of the world, also the character portraits just look bad, I dont like looking at them. At all.

 

[Bernard95]

For anyone who would like to play India but has no idea who to play, I've pointed many people to this particular thread in the past:

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...cters-and-starts-in-india-an-overview.855154/

There's also the Interesting Female Characters List sticky, which has a small Dharmic section:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...list-of-interesting-female-characters.834106/
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...list-of-interesting-female-characters.834106/

 

[Vokasak]

I don't like Indian culture(s) and religions (aside from Buddhism), I have not much knowledge or interest in this region, so I don't want to play there. Is it racist?

I like Chinese culture though, but still wouldn't want to play in China.

"I don't know anything about this culture and religion, but I don't like them. Am I racist?"

Yup.

 

[Cagliostro]

I play in India a fair amount, though sometimes it's as a non-local religion (Zunists, or occasionally Nestorians or Zoroastrians). There's a significant minority that avoids it like the plague.

As to the racism question, there are definitely people for whom that is the issue. Strategy games tend to attract far right wackos (you can often see them in the MP lobby in EU, for example). Crusader Kings, by the title alone and the original game, could be seen as glorifying a Christianity vs. RotW point of view. However, that doesn't mean that everyone who hates India hates it for that reason. Some people hate it for performance issues (perceived or actual). Some people hate it because they consider it irrelevant to the 'meat' of the game, which they consider the Crusades (see title). And some people hate it because they know nothing of Indian history and don't care to explore it particularly - and have trouble putting themselves in the shoes of, say, a Jain prince rather than a western count.

 

[XYN]

"I don't know anything about this culture and religion, but I don't like them. Am I racist?"

Yup.

How "not much" in your head got translated into "anything"? Did you read my post at all?

 

[CatilinamSum]

I play in India a fair amount, though sometimes it's as a non-local religion (Zunists, or occasionally Nestorians or Zoroastrians). There's a significant minority that avoids it like the plague.

As to the racism question, there are definitely people for whom that is the issue. Strategy games tend to attract far right wackos (you can often see them in the MP lobby in EU, for example). Crusader Kings, by the title alone and the original game, could be seen as glorifying a Christianity vs. RotW point of view. However, that doesn't mean that everyone who hates India hates it for that reason. Some people hate it for performance issues (perceived or actual). Some people hate it because they consider it irrelevant to the 'meat' of the game, which they consider the Crusades (see title). And some people hate it because they know nothing of Indian history and don't care to explore it particularly - and have trouble putting themselves in the shoes of, say, a Jain prince rather than a western count.

I think that there are also some who hate on India because of its perceived irrelevance to the game, rather than to the historical setting. Partially because of the Holy Orders, India has a tendency to stagnate when the player isn't involved.

While I love the Indian religions to death, I can sympathize with those who want to see more traffic both in and out of the subcontinent. Hopefully, the JD patch will go a long way toward fixing this.

IMO, in addition to more Turkic adventurers/invasions, India would also benefit from the addition of events that occasionally allow AI rulers to convert to Islam or Nestorian Christianity.

 

[Fishman786]

I probably play in India more often than I play in western continental Europe. Continental Europe is just kinda boring IMO. Britain is fun, as are Norse Scandinavia and the 1066 incarnation of Iberia, but the lands of the HRE and further west just don't inspire me. Whereas rebuilding a powerful and prosperous Indian empire and ensuring that Jain knowledge never declines or leading desperate nomads to a new home in Rajasthan are really fun.

 

[XYN]

I probably play in India more often than I play in western continental Europe. Continental Europe is just kinda boring IMO. Britain is fun, as are Norse Scandinavia and the 1066 incarnation of Iberia, but the lands of the HRE and further west just don't inspire me. Whereas rebuilding a powerful and prosperous Indian empire and ensuring that Jain knowledge never declines or leading desperate nomads to a new home in Rajasthan are really fun.

France and HRE are extremely boring, but playing an outsider can be fun there. Like a Slavic ruler in modern-day Germany, or a Saxon ruler at the Charlemagne start. It also gets better to the East and South-East, there are quite a lot of things to do on Balkans.

 

[killerbee256]

You speak like a true SJW. Everything is racist. Now even people who don't ike to play India (or China) are racists.

No, but some are. You claim the he was painting with to broad a brush and then your do the same in reverse.

 

[balmung60]

I keep wanting to, but then I keep getting distracted by doing Norse or Zoroastrian runs again. That said, I may very well do a Tibetan Bon run in Jade Dragon.

Also, the original Indian portraits didn't help, as they looked older than same age-range portraits in other portrait packs (like the young adult portraits looked almost as old as most middle aged portraits), though the newer South Indian portraits don't really have this problem.

 

[CMDR_HERNE]

What's not to like about the medieval Indian sub continent. Finally picked up ROI in anticipation of the incoming map and game changes to the area. Currently I'm about 120 years in from a 1066 start. This is just as an interesting area for a campaign as the Iberian peninsula or East Africa is.

An intersting dynamic between Hindi, Buddhism, Jainism and Islam. There shall be some fun campaigns exported into EU4

 

[Masternachos]

I have not played India much, but I do enjoy having it there. I will definitely be playing after this new expansion pack.
Part of it is because I'm a rather aesthetic person, and I didn't like a lot of the Indian portraits initially [before the recent portrait pack, I didn't play Germans much, either, because they were too generic]. Near the end of EU III (before I started playing CK2), I had a lot of fun with games in India, uniting the subcontinent and then turning the Indian Ocean into my own Mare Nostrum, which is another issue with India as it is now: when I'm in India, my head wants me to interact with SE Asia (especially Indonesia), and the coast of Africa, which aren't there. Building around the Arabian Sea seems good, but so many huge Muslim empires to fight...
For me, it would be so awesome to have an Indian merchant republic with trade posts stretching from Zanzibar to Shanghai... but I can't do that. I mostly could with the Tianxia expansion, but it's still alpha, and I'm in an achievement-hunting mood lately, so...

 

[Susanna]

I haven't much, but I think that's largely because I generally let the randomizer pick who my starting character is.

 

[Joel M Bridge]

I play in India a fair amount, though sometimes it's as a non-local religion (Zunists, or occasionally Nestorians or Zoroastrians). There's a significant minority that avoids it like the plague.

As to the racism question, there are definitely people for whom that is the issue. Strategy games tend to attract far right wackos (you can often see them in the MP lobby in EU, for example). Crusader Kings, by the title alone and the original game, could be seen as glorifying a Christianity vs. RotW point of view. However, that doesn't mean that everyone who hates India hates it for that reason. Some people hate it for performance issues (perceived or actual). Some people hate it because they consider it irrelevant to the 'meat' of the game, which they consider the Crusades (see title). And some people hate it because they know nothing of Indian history and don't care to explore it particularly - and have trouble putting themselves in the shoes of, say, a Jain prince rather than a western count.

I think that's one of the better answers I heard. I haven't been able to play CK2 Close to a year and a half now because my computer I can't handle it. Now if the complaints were about mechanics or not proper representation through mechanics I can see that. Or in my case and some others their computers cannot do anymore. But there's been a huge complaint of get rid of it completely it's an unnecessary etc. and I've been playing crusader kings when it just was CK back in 2000s but I was teenager. What's the most little saddened not surprise when people say it's insignificant but we are dealing with huge empires here. Because the argument they're making 40 insignificant I can make about any of the Russian principalities the middle east Helena Jerusalem with the fallaciousness there are arguments. No social justice warrior at least in the derogatory sense. I served in the military for six years I know what ball busting racism with a bunch of guys as a cultural equalizer looks like it could be quite fun. But I see a lot of people on the form again it's only a small perspective of Community but it is vocal that utterly view India as being insignificant.

These are the same people that would most likely argue the Civil War was not about slavery and legality session.

 

[The Shacks]

Think most people just regard the subcontinent and semi uniform and insular (which is not true in reality but semi-true in the game) and I immagine don't know much about it, as I don't tbh. Which makes it harder to roleplay well. If i'm playing a scandi or a saxon or a Norman or Spain or Byzantine etc. I can visualise everything and keep a track of names and geneologies more in my head etc. India, much the same for Islam (don't know much about the Islamic era in the Near East, just western sources toward Islam). Have played there once or twice for short games. Will look forward to meaningfully interacting with it in a Tarim Basin now that India can be reached via Tibet.

Are many people racist toward Indians? I mean yes a lot of the older generations in England have some lingering engrained racism from the end of the empire when indians migrated to Britain from Kenya and theres obviously various resentments toward pakistan but usuallyit does seem to me people just moan about India 'cos of the latency'. Though can't say I ever get much latency in Ck2 but then I rarely bash it at full speed.

 

[Masternachos]

I think that's one of the better answers I heard. I haven't been able to play CK2 Close to a year and a half now because my computer I can't handle it. Now if the complaints were about mechanics or not proper representation through mechanics I can see that. ...

Well I think a large part of why India gets the "unnecessary/irrelevant" complaints is because, unlike the other places you mentioned (backwater Russian principalities, etc), India was an actual map expansion. Whatever Russian province it is that borders the Arctic Ocean and the Siberian wasteland may be poor, irrelevant, and so obscure I have to describe it because I don't know the name of any of those provinces up there, but it was always there. India was a full DLC that added an entire subcontinent (instead of fixing Crusades or adding cadet branches, they'll point out) that you couldn't even opt out of by not buying the DLC. And the added lag, even if now fixed, is going to leave a bad taste in their mouths.

 

[AllThat4Nothing]

I do enjoy turning off diplo range and turning on interfaith marriages and marrying extremely educated, super-stat dharmic faith wives sometimes. Regularly finding potential wives with Stewardship skills in the mid to high 20s is kinda nice...

 

[XYN]

I think that's one of the better answers I heard. I haven't been able to play CK2 Close to a year and a half now because my computer I can't handle it. Now if the complaints were about mechanics or not proper representation through mechanics I can see that. Or in my case and some others their computers cannot do anymore. But there's been a huge complaint of get rid of it completely it's an unnecessary etc. and I've been playing crusader kings when it just was CK back in 2000s but I was teenager. What's the most little saddened not surprise when people say it's insignificant but we are dealing with huge empires here. Because the argument they're making 40 insignificant I can make about any of the Russian principalities the middle east Helena Jerusalem with the fallaciousness there are arguments. No social justice warrior at least in the derogatory sense. I served in the military for six years I know what ball busting racism with a bunch of guys as a cultural equalizer looks like it could be quite fun. But I see a lot of people on the form again it's only a small perspective of Community but it is vocal that utterly view India as being insignificant.

These are the same people that would most likely argue the Civil War was not about slavery and legality session.

I would be fine with cutting Russian provinces if it would mean better performance and gameplay elsewhere.

 

[Vokasak]

I would be fine with cutting Russian provinces if it would mean better performance and gameplay elsewhere.

Thankfully, nobody put you in charge of making that decision!