I hope that it will be this way. It would allow 2 Brigade units to stand against 2-3 divisional landing force.
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It would also depend on the level of fortifications in that province. If you have 10 levels of fortification one division with two brigades should be enough to occupy the area with no disadvantage in frontage. 5 levels of fortification you would need two such brigades to occupy the area effectively.
I think this would be quite realistic in my opinion...
I think this would be quite realistic in my opinion...
Yeah - I agree - the space of frontage reduction need to be dependent on fort size. The amount of it must be well balanced.
Whatever the mechanics involved, Im just hoping that AI Germany can put up even the shadow of a resistance this time around against an Overlord.
As it is, I dont even bother with pretenses; I can land simultaneously on every beach from Holland to Brest and the Germany AI just sits there confused...
If this had been the real life extent of their defenses, the Dieppe Raid would have taken Paris.
As it is, I dont even bother with pretenses; I can land simultaneously on every beach from Holland to Brest and the Germany AI just sits there confused...
If this had been the real life extent of their defenses, the Dieppe Raid would have taken Paris.
As long as you cant supply 50 divisions through a newly conquered beach province within hours like in HOI2 I will be happy. If major ports are as few as they were and as crucial for supply availability Overlord will be a lot more realistic this time.
The supply system is totally remade.
After landing it will be a race against time to secure enough Ports to bring in supply. Each division will have perhaps a week - a month supply with them when they land. When its spent they must get more from ports, and even a surplus in order replenish whats lost and conduct offensives.
So technically the newly landed divisions will be "in supply" even if they are using up their own stores.
This will simulate one other importance of invasion defense, the land fortress on the rear of the Ports, thats where all the landed divisions will desperately spend all their efforts to break through and secure supply flows.
Actually during the D-Day, if I'm right the allies installed provisory ports called Mulberry because the ports were like forteress. They missed a ports frontal attack in Dieppe in 1942... so I wonder if it is right in this situation to focus on ports, because the alllies found an another way to supply...
Allied operations relied on capturing Cherburg IIRC. The Mulberies were enough to supply them but for further advances thay needed a real port.
I hope a small division of 1-2 brigades will be able to delay an assault for long enough to let your mobile reserve react. It shouldn't be able to win against any good assault, but every hour is important so you can get those panzers to the beaches. The Allies did a fine job of making sure the panzers wouldn't reach them in time. Otherwise it might have gone differently since the first hours and days after D-day were the most influential.
I just hope that AI will check its inelligence befor making invasion:
- strenght of defences
- distance from reserve troops
- ports
- strategic importance (other operations possible from that location)
etc.
I dont wnat them to start doing it in the worst time and place. Like where my best troops are stationed in the best forts along the whole atlantic wall and reserves are just 2 provinces far from that place.
- strenght of defences
- distance from reserve troops
- ports
- strategic importance (other operations possible from that location)
etc.
I dont wnat them to start doing it in the worst time and place. Like where my best troops are stationed in the best forts along the whole atlantic wall and reserves are just 2 provinces far from that place.
How is that inaccurate? There is a lot of easily accessible coast line along the Libanese/Palestine shore, and the British would never have been able to defend all of it with the meager forces they had in the theatre. If there had been an Italian force the size of the Overlord-troops (and the beaches are well suited for such a large landing) then the British would have needed an entire army group to defend the place.
There could be events that pop up during an invasion that will delay your counter attack movements, especially armor. It could be random with different varying percentages. It could affect supply and/or moral of the troops.
With different events and different penalties being applied a human would not predict how an event would effect their defense. Then game would be fun and more realistic.
Nothing better than having a perfect defense to drive the allies back and then wham.... a random event. Oh my Armor can only move 1/3rd and infantry 1/2, or the moral and supply is down. Makes it more realistic.
Could you imagine an event popping up: "Hitler has refused you to move the reserves. All troops in X region can not move for 24hrs"?
I can hear you guys screaming at the furor now… I had the chance to drive the allies into the sea!
We all know the invasion is coming and we shouldn't be allowed to wipe out the Allies. The target should be: give them a good fight and alot of causalities. Once the allies make a beachhead and gain a few provinces inland, it should be a free for all, giving you the opportunity to drive them back into the sea.
about those mulberry ports in HOI II could you not occupy a province then put a harbor in there which then build itself up? this is sort of a mulberry port
Events to artificially handicap you? How is this better than the engine itself simulating problems? I'd rather keep the scripted events to a minimum while letting the game itself create these situations "legitimately."
And if I was Germany, wouldn't I be the one to decide whether or not supplies go through, or to use my panzers at the coast like Rommel advised? How would Hitler supercede me? I am the decision maker here!
Agreed. Though if this was not the case, I'd certainly enjoy having lots of potential in event scripting (i.e. lots of trigger conditions, lots of effects, etc...).
Next development diary ... Beach Landing ?
... with a beautifull screenshot of Normandy (terrain mode and supply mode ) ...
... with a beautifull screenshot of Normandy (terrain mode and supply mode ) ...
It should be interesting to see how this plays out in Nat Chi might make it easier or harder not sure yet.
Really it is all about supply. Almost every historical mililtary campaign limit can be simulated or replicated by the logistics system. Sure, it may be dumbed down and streamlined quite a bit...but the successes and failures of military campaigns should be very reliant on adequate logistics.
The biggest problem with beach landings is not necessarily the landing itself (which is admittedly hard to coordinate) but the availability (or lack) of a logistics base from which to immediately operate. I am not just talking about ammunition and food/water but medical supplies, triage centers, medevacs, communications, fuel, mail, tents, admin stuff, et cetera forever. All these things are eventually necessary in a properly functioning unit, and must be brought on shore somehow. The best thing about the HoI3 system is the provincial bottleneck for logistics. While we don't know much else, we at least know that it will be better than HoI2.
The biggest problem with beach landings is not necessarily the landing itself (which is admittedly hard to coordinate) but the availability (or lack) of a logistics base from which to immediately operate. I am not just talking about ammunition and food/water but medical supplies, triage centers, medevacs, communications, fuel, mail, tents, admin stuff, et cetera forever. All these things are eventually necessary in a properly functioning unit, and must be brought on shore somehow. The best thing about the HoI3 system is the provincial bottleneck for logistics. While we don't know much else, we at least know that it will be better than HoI2.
I suppose the point I'm trying to make is that you don't defend a 10 mile beachhead with 20,000 soldiers. I agree that the UK shouldnt be able to defend the Levant from an Italian Overlord. Nor am I saying that Ports and naval/air coordination shouldnt be integral to a massive amphibious campaign. Rather, I am commenting on the granularity issue. IE you end up with absolutely massive beach defenses in one tiny area followed by huge swaths of totally undefended beach. The issue is less related to D-Day sized invasions where we can assume that gaining the beachhead is almost guaranteed, but Dieppe sized raids in which the beach garrison itself is able to repel a much larger force without the need of mobile reserves. (Dieppe beach was successfully defended by 150 soldiers!) Hense my earlier suggestion that a division can provide beach defense for adjacent beach provinces to model them spreading out.
Logistic seems for me the best change that PI prepared for us. Screw all that designers etc. - its logistics that will make the game different and more challenging.