How long for Synthetic Dawn?

[skullblits]

Well you have to understand where they are coming from.

They are a Busines trying to make money..

So if it cost 20 million to make the game. And only make 17 million from sales. They won't pump more money into it. For dlc.

Also its the 1st time a game of this scale has been put onto console.

 

[Ayho]

I'm afraid I'd only be repeating myself at this stage. The reasons for the thing being done as is were outlined in my response to point 3. It's how things are and the best we can do is be honest about it.

i appreciate your reply and i understood point 3 but i think thats not the best approach to sell the game because the future of the game is uncertain on console. It is possible that it ends in 6 months.

I have some friends that wants to buy stellaris on console but because of this they are holding back. Well we just have to wait for may then.

 

[Andre The Magnificent]

I understand that it will cost time. No problem here.
If paradox said like this ok guys we will roll out all the dlcs in fases but it will take time. Something like this

Season pass 1: plantoids, leviathans and utopia.

Season pass 2: humanoid pack, syntethic dawn and apocalypse

Season pass 3: distant stars and megacorps.

I would have no problems with that. Yes it cost time but the content is not cut in half.
I would wait and buy everything when it comes out.

The problem here is we dont know if console gets any content after utopia. Right now it is like this: maybe we support it maybe we dont. If paradox decides not to support console version anymore in may than this version is basically half cut. Thats the problem.

With all due respect, I wouldn't assume that anything is set in stone. I wasn't complacent in buying a digital copy for myself. Mayhaps consider that with AoW Planetfall being released later in the year, that Paradox isn't dismissive of console games. I'm not keen on turn based games but due to the quality of Paradox games I'd like to own a copy when its available.

I'm looking forward to May with anticipation.

 

[mergele]

Seems strange to me. The statement regarding PC is "We'll make DLCs as long as people buy them." So "We will make DLC for console no matter what" would actually be favourable treatement of consoles. Instead they are treating them the same as PC and that is indicative of their disregard for console?

 

[twenty]

... but i think thats not the best approach to sell the game because the future of the game is uncertain on console. It is possible that it ends in 6 months.

do you honestly believe this is not true for all games? or any product for that matter.

if GTAV didnt sell extremely well and people didnt buy shark cards, do you think they'd still be updating it 5+ years later?

when you buy a new game there's no guarantee for future development beyond what's written on the box, they just dont come out and say it. if a game is not successful why would they sink more money into it? they're a business and are accountable to their shareholders first and foremost.

if your friends and yourself cant see that, then by all means wait and see what happens. just dont complain if support for the game is pulled due to lack of interest. this is true for any product, no interest in the product means they stop producing it or they go out of business. the only difference in this situation is they've been honest with you upfront.

 

[Ayho]

do you honestly believe this is not true for all games? or any product for that matter.

if GTAV didnt sell extremely well and people didnt buy shark cards, do you think they'd still be updating it 5+ years later?

when you buy a new game there's no guarantee for future development beyond what's written on the box, they just dont come out and say it. if a game is not successful why would they sink more money into it? they're a business and are accountable to their shareholders first and foremost.

if your friends and yourself cant see that, then by all means wait and see what happens. just dont complain if support for the game is pulled due to lack of interest. this is true for any product, no interest in the product means they stop producing it or they go out of business. the only difference in this situation is they've been honest with you upfront.

do you honestly believe this is not true for all games? or any product for that matter.

if GTAV didnt sell extremely well and people didnt buy shark cards, do you think they'd still be updating it 5+ years later?

when you buy a new game there's no guarantee for future development beyond what's written on the box, they just dont come out and say it. if a game is not successful why would they sink more money into it? they're a business and are accountable to their shareholders first and foremost.

if your friends and yourself cant see that, then by all means wait and see what happens. just dont complain if support for the game is pulled due to lack of interest. this is true for any product, no interest in the product means they stop producing it or they go out of business. the only difference in this situation is they've been honest with you upfront.

You dont get the point. You are talking about new games. Gta5 was multi plat and everybody got the same content. It wasnt like pc version got heist and console version didnt. Stellaris is now multi plat to but maybe the content is far less with the console edition.

Stellaris isnt a new game. Dlcs are already out. Yes right now only on pc but its normal that many console players wants the same amount of content to. They compare there content with the pc version. You have something to compare to. You dont have that with brand new game.

And about money.
You take the risk or not.
If you take it than do it with 100 percent commitment and not only for 50 percent. You divide your playerbase. You get apocalypse ( pc ) and you dont ( ps4/xbox ).

If the risk is to high dont release it at all.

And again we shall see whats happens in may. I hope console gets more dlcs. Finger crossed

 

[twenty]

You dont get the point. You are talking about new games. Gta5 was multi plat and everybody got the same content. It wasnt like pc version got heist and console version didnt. Stellaris is now multi plat to but maybe the content is far less with the console edition.

Stellaris isnt a new game. Dlcs are already out. Yes right now only on pc but its normal that many console players wants the same amount of content to. They compare there content with the pc version. You have something to compare to. You dont have that with brand new game.

And about money.
You take the risk or not.
If you take it than do it with 100 percent commitment and not only for 50 percent. You divide your playerbase. You get apocalypse ( pc ) and you dont ( ps4/xbox ).

If the risk is to high dont release it at all.

And again we shall see whats happens in may. I hope console gets more dlcs. Finger crossed

obviously I wasnt using GTAV as an example of a port because it isnt a port. its an example of how a company needs the support of its customers to continue bringing you content. has nothing to do with a new game vs a port, has to do with being a business and not a charity.

out of curiosity, what ports do you own that are 100% on par with their original game? I dont own a single one, that's just life as a console player, the hardware and customer demand limits how far it will go.

not to confuse the issue but if there was no demand and money to continue the development of the PC version, do you think they would / should continue anyway? then answer that question again if it was your money that would have to cover the losses.

I'm with you in hoping that the game on console continues to be supported and updated but realize that holding my breath and stamping my feet isn't going to influence that decision. either you support the project or you don't and I do.

 

[xCanis_Lupusx]

Since this discussion began - I've started to wonder what we'll end up with even in terms of minor things if they elect to stop at Utopia.

Will we get travel method choices? (Warp/Hyper/Etc) - Will we get choice in announcer voices? Will we ever get mod support?

Even if it turns out that they don't provide anymore DLC / Expansion content ...will they go ahead and give us the other portraits and ships in a patch for the mere cosmetic choices of race building? (I mean without any special civics, traits, or whatnot that affect programming needs)

I guess what I'm concerned about is - if sales have gone too poorly - will they wash their hands of it, or will they go ahead and provide elements that don't require tremendous coding? I mean, any potential cosmetic things like the announcer voices - those can't require a ton of work to give us.

 

[Ayho]

obviously I wasnt using GTAV as an example of a port because it isnt a port. its an example of how a company needs the support of its customers to continue bringing you content. has nothing to do with a new game vs a port, has to do with being a business and not a charity.

out of curiosity, what ports do you own that are 100% on par with their original game? I dont own a single one, that's just life as a console player, the hardware and customer demand limits how far it will go.

not to confuse the issue but if there was no demand and money to continue the development of the PC version, do you think they would / should continue anyway? then answer that question again if it was your money that would have to cover the losses.

I'm with you in hoping that the game on console continues to be supported and updated but realize that holding my breath and stamping my feet isn't going to influence that decision. either you support the project or you don't and I do.

Console gamers who bought the game also expects the same content as pc. They also dont give money to charity.

Verdun, mount and blade, xcom. Well shall i go on? Oh yeah and all the same content with pc. Thats how you do it. Hardware limits has nothing to do with the dlcs. If stellaris was a high demanding game than you could not run the base game on console at all. Btw It is already taken care of with max 600 stars and 10 ai empires
( avoiding end game lag ). Pc max settings are far higher. Much more stars and ai empires. Those are technical issues not content.

I think they will go on with the pc version bc main playerbase is on pc. Bigger audience. If it not sells well than they will try to repair the damage. Right now console version feels like a expirement. It will get one chance. If it dont sells well than ditch it but this is just my feelings about this.

 

[Caladors]

Okay guys, I think this has been taken out of a human context, I am unsure how much paradox makes but I very much doubt that this Enron level profits.

So I am making a game (not a hypothetical I am making a game) a pen and paper rpg, I have spent thousands now tens of thousands of dollars on art, I have yet to launch, but I don't want to be a Kickstarter bum without anything to show. Enough about me and onto the point. If only 20 people buy it and everything goes belly up, should I still put the same level of effort, time, and money into this project, years of my life gone for 20 people?

We all know the answer is no. You can try and justify it some way but it doesn't make a lick of sense. Now translate that to not a company sense but a group sense. Should 100 people go broke, to appease the wills of 2,000? The answer is no.

Do I want paradox to continue supporting this product? ... is this even a question for any of the people here?! They are on the console forum for a paradox game where most people where an unironic PC master race logo on their foreheads. The answer is yes.

come on guys, think about this on a human level and the answer is obvious, this is a plug and port game, this takes work, it takes time and effort to translate this, high end PCs get fried by this game.

Developers are people too, I have heard some developers (not these ones but I haven't heard a lot from them just some streams) say some pretty silly things, but they are still human, at least pay them that respect.

 

[twenty]

oh cool, that's great that mount and blade finally got the viking conquest and napoleonic wars expansions, as well as all the mods.......

you seriously think that if no one is interested in further PC DLC for stellaris and theres no money coming in they'd still continue pumping out new DLC at a loss? it's a nice thought but not realistic.

 

[twenty]

Since this discussion began - I've started to wonder what we'll end up with even in terms of minor things if they elect to stop at Utopia.

personally, I think you shouldn't worry about things that are out of your control and not necessarily going to happen. focus on enjoying what we have and look forward to what we know is coming. before you know it paradox will be making an announcement.

 

[Ayho]

you seriously think that if no one is interested in further PC DLC for stellaris and theres no money coming in they'd still continue pumping out new DLC at a loss? it's a nice thought but not realistic.

See hello games ( No mans sky ). Small developer and limited budget. Nobody was interested in the whole game anymore. They could drop the whole thing but after many free updates ( yes free )they won back the trust of many players. It became a decent game. So it is possible. It is called damage control.

Clearly our opinions are different. We can have 100 pages discussion here but let us just wait for may first. Maybe all this discussions were unnecessary. Lets see what paradox decides.

 

[NogardNys]

See hello games ( No mans sky ). Small developer and limited budget. Nobody was interested in the whole game anymore. They could drop the whole thing but after many free updates ( yes free )they won back the trust of many players. It became a decent game. So it is possible. It is called damage control.

Clearly our opinions are different. We can have 100 pages discussion here but let us just wait for may first. Maybe all this discussions were unnecessary. Let see what paradox decides.

Free updates for No Man's Sky? You mean the updates that added in everything that was missing at launch? Everything that they promised the game would have?

They sure as hell should be free, you think their "damage control" would have gone over well if they had charged for those updates since something like 70-80% of players refunded their game not long after launch?

Not entirely sure what Hello Games finally finishing No Man's Sky has to do with this game getting future content which has been stated many time will be determined by the sales they've made in the first quarter, if there's only a market for maybe a thousand people or less I wouldn't be surprised that they wouldn't want to continue to put out content.

 

[Darknessrising]

Such a scummy practice, and even scarier to see people defending it. "Buy our game, we may update it so you get the full experience, we may not. Buy our game. Oh, whether or not we update it is dependent on an incredibly vague and immeasurable set of variables. Buy our game (the deluxe edition)"

 

[Caladors]

dev: I am selling a bike guys.
forum user: okay will you keep selling bike accessories?
dev: sure ha ha, so long as I get enough money for my family not to starve.
FU: how dare you! you have no right to not have your family to starve I won't buy things unless I know people are willing to let their family starve to support it.
dev: uuhhhhh what?
guy: that seems unreasonable...
FU: how dare you defend such a pratice, he wants food for his family, I am no food machine hrumph I say hrumph!
guy: his saying so long as he can support his bussiness he will sell that stuff it isn't rocket science...
FU: how pedestrian, you console peasants how dare you have opinions, this is a farce!
guy: uhhh what?

 

[NogardNys]

dev: I am selling a bike guys.
forum user: okay will you keep selling bike accessories?
dev: sure ha ha, so long as I get enough money for my family not to starve.
FU: how dare you! you have no right to not have your family to starve I won't buy things unless I know people are willing to let their family starve to support it.
dev: uuhhhhh what?
guy: that seems unreasonable...
FU: how dare you defend such a pratice, he wants food for his family, I am no food machine hrumph I say hrumph!
guy: his saying so long as he can support his bussiness he will sell that stuff it isn't rocket science...
FU: how pedestrian, you console peasants how dare you have opinions, this is a farce!
guy: uhhh what?

This pretty much sums up this entire discussion, people expecting companies to lose money for the vanity of their self entitlement. Then the rest of us who understand, why a company wouldn't just waste money if the market is too small.

 

[twenty]

...whether or not we update it is dependent on an incredibly vague and immeasurable set of variables

I would say it's the exact opposite, they're not vague at all, they've been consistent all along, it's based on the sales numbers. it is also no doubt exactly measurable by the number of units sold.

they've invested two years of time and money into the console version, if they don't see a return on that investment, why would they invest more?

if you invested your money and after every financial report you'd lost money would you leave it invested there? if you answered yes, PM me, have I got an investment for you.

 

[Darknessrising]

"Entitlement" is the worst buzzword to ever enter gaming's lexicon. Expecting a product you purchased to be supported is not entitlement. It will never be entitlement. The sooner you learn this, the sooner you can break the shackles of outrage culture.

 

[Harlot]

For those who are anxious to hear how the game is performing, I recommend you keep an eye out for the quarterly financial report stream next month (we'll share a date as soon as possible). Every 3 months, our CEO and CFO talk live about how our products performed in the previous quarter. This time it'll mean the Stellaris: Console Edition. It's very likely it'll get a mention and, since usually there's a short Q&A sessions, you should swing by the stream with your questions.