How Interesting and Playable is Norway?

[Emir of Aleppo]

So I bought EU 4 recently and want to play a nation that isnt too big or too small. Norway stuck me as an option but afaik it is surrounded by countries that are larger in size (in terms of population and hence soldiers). I dont want to play a game being dominated by my stronger Nordic brethren and the Russians to the east so im curious to know what veteran players have to say on their experience of playing Norway. Is it playable?

 

[Lord Finnish]

A fairly weak and vulnerable state but has a lot of colonization potential. You may even have to escape to North America. Your greatest threats are of course Denmark and Sweden, but also England/GB who will want your islands.

No country is unplayable, some countries are harder than others but still able to succeed.

 

[megaspider01]

So I bought EU 4 recently and want to play a nation that isnt too big or too small. Norway stuck me as an option but afaik it is surrounded by countries that are larger in size (in terms of population and hence soldiers). I dont want to play a game being dominated by my stronger Nordic brethren and the Russians to the east so im curious to know what veteran plays have to say on their experience of playing Norway. Is it playable?

Colonize, colonize EVERYTHING

 

[neondt]

Ally with Sweden day 1. This means that when one of you starts an independence war against Denmark, both of you and all your other supporters will join too. In the independence war you can grab a fair chunk of Danish land (just make sure you also demand your independence). I like to take some of their mainland provinces, at least enough to get Danish as an accepted culture. After that, Sweden is very quickly going to turn hostile. You're going to need a good general to beat Sweden's army. You should also build up a force of galleys to block the sound from Sweden's allies (such as Poland). In addition, try to ally Muscovy. Take as much of Sweden as you can in the first war, though you might not get enough to make Swedish accepted until later. After this, you're basically as strong as an independent Sweden, so do what you like.

For your first idea group, consider quantity. Your default manpower is awful.

 

[Lord Finnish]

For your first idea group, consider quantity. Your default manpower is awful.

I would say that Exploration is definitely best for first idea. IIRC you have the colonial range to colonize Greenland and then Canada. You shouldn't waste that kind of a head start.

 

[neondt]

I would say that Exploration is definitely best for first idea. IIRC you have the colonial range to colonize Greenland and then Canada. You shouldn't waste that kind of a head start.

I didn't even take exploration. Your national ideas basically do the same job. Instead I took expansion later. Depends what kind of game you're playing though, I prefer to focus on Europe and colonise on the side. I guess if you really want a colonial head start take Exploration.

 

[Frungy78]

Easiest way to grow as Norway-
Restart until Hansa rival Denmark. Ally Sweden, get support independence from Hansa. Improve relations with Austria. Declare independence war against Denmark with Sweden and Hansa's help.
Win the war, take Nordjylland. Add Nordjylland to HRE, add Akershus to HRE. You are now in the HRE.
You're still allied with Hansa, so go kill Sweden. Your combined fleets should take care of Sweden's. Take Dalaskogen (huge income here), Vasterbotton, Osterbotton at a minimum. Release Finland as vassal. Feed it in later wars. Kill Novgorod, they usually have no allies and feed Finland. Dominate north sea trade node (kill Scotland). Colonize Canada.

From there, either dominate Lubeck trade, or become emperor, or push into Russia... whatever you want.

 

[Adrian Gaming]

I have heard a good strategy to succeed as Norway is to support Sweden in an independence war, ally Muscovy, give Sweden it's cores back (as you do hold some IIRC) and then colonize Greenland, Canada, and build a North American empire about 40 years earlier than anybody else.

Mind you that if your European domain does not keep up with the American domain, your colonial powers will recognize your weakness and declare independence when they are stronger than you are. Maintain a naval and land force limit, try to take quips of land from Sweden and Denmark if opportunity arises, and be extra cautious.

 

[neondt]

give Sweden it's cores back.

Never!

 

[GChapman]

I would expand into Scotland (they dont have strong allies if you hit them when France is still in the HYW and when they wont join) and Novgorov (Muscovy beat them, make them your vassal and feed them all russian culture provinces. If you take not to much provinces you can also join the HRE if you like it.

 

[eon47]

It's been a while since I played them, but there's no reason you can't form Scandinavia eventually. Sweden's tough, but with the right allies and the patience to not attack them right out of the gate, they'll fall as easily as anyone. The main problem is Russia. They're not a threat early on while other nations very much are, yet they'll also be the biggest danger mid to late game if they form. You can either try to sabotage them early or commit yourself to being best buds with them for the rest of the game.

 

[Dr. B]

You want to expand in Scandinavia into south Sweden first thing, if not they will become a major problem a bit later and you desperately need the rich land. Dominate Scandinavia by dominating the seas, and then you can do pretty much what you like. A lot of potential in old and new world alike.

Edit: a reminder about the first independence war, be sure that you are the one declaring war, not Sweden. If several subject countries are fighting together in an independence war, only the war leader (the country who declared the war), can make the peace treaty, the other subjects have to accept it.

 

[Thrake]

Definately not a good country for a first start. Dirt poor and you're surrounded by two majors: Sweden an Russia. You might befriend Russia once you expand your powerbase to be worthy of an ally but Sweden will hate your guts.

You're better off going for something safer. If you don't want a major power, as a first start I would avoid the HRE so it leaves you with little choice. I'd say Naples, nobody powerful will be interested in your lands early on. You'll have to break free from Aragon first but that shouldn't be too hard with support from independance from foreigners. A big HRE nation (Savoy, Switzerland, Bohemia) is quite safe as well but there's another layer of diplomacy within the HRE so I wouldn't advise it for a first game.

 

[Dr. B]

To emphasize the importance of dealing with Sweden:

They share a long border with you and hate your guts, so there is no peaceful options. They start with +20 infantry CA, -25% merc cost and lucky nation modifier, giving manpower, +1 general shock and fire, another -25% merc cost among other things. AI Sweden takes the administrative idea group first, giving massive merc bonuses (almost free) and +6 base force limits. After taking 6 ideas they get their second NI, +5 discipline. And it only get worse with time (offensive idea group is their #2, their next NIs are also military ones). You need port provinces to expand your only national asset and primary money-maker, your navy, they have same-culture group (and immediately accepted after coring a few provinces) wealthy land right next door.

They have to be crippled quick, by you, at any cost. Thus focusing solely on colonization is a bad idea and why the exploration idea group can wait until #2 in favor of something like administrative, wich will boost your own force limits. Set your national focus firmly on admin after pressing play, use your merchant marine to fund mercs for war and save plenty of adm points on coring (and time to core, quite important) right from the start.

 

[perhje]

As for the start, sell your war and transport fleet to Burgundy(only they will accept) and use the moneys yo get(160?) to build trade ships. The traditions make those ships a medium fighting force and your key to a strong economy. Use them to protect trade in Lübeck.

Use the ally tactic mentioned over with Sweden and rivals of Denmark. NEVER try to ally France(did it many times and failed hard) before your fleet is almost as strong as the english. Instead try to ally England and get them in a war with Sweden true the alliance they have with Scotland. If Scotland keep their borders England will never try to take you before it is to late for them. Take out Scotland when your fleet is stronger than the english and your army can compete with them and this is the time to ally France. If you decide to try France instead your fleet will die because Sweden often allies England and then you will have english troops landing in Agder and swedish coming from the east. Also Muscovy is a good ally to get. Also I would advice you to take Skåne and Halland(get claim if possible) in the independence war and hinder Sweden from occupying anything. Those provinces gives you trade power and more important, forcelimit. Use some more wars to take all the danish lands, but in the meantime you should also take from Sweden if possible, espesially Dalaskogen for money and Västergötland for land connection->no need for a big transport fleet. In every war with Sweden take out their fleet if possible. This can be very helpful if your army suffer. Bait the Se

As the game goes try to ally and diplovassalize northern minors in HRE. This can help a lot against coalitions and other problems you can get.

As for ideas group I would from the start of the game set focus to diplomacy and have diplomatic as the first, exspansion as the second and quantity as the third. The norwegian ideas are one of the best for colonisation with the colonist idea, plus you get lot more trade and ships with colonies so you must go as early as possible to get the best areas while Spain and Portugal are focusing on Africa and Brazil. Get to technology level 7(by this time you should have 2 or 1 colonist) in diplotech asap after getting the 3 first ideas in exploration and after that take ideas before tech in diplomatic. Exceptions would be levels where light ships are upgraded. When you have filled the 3 first idea groups always use the policies until there is nothing more to colonice. This will make the colonicing faster and Keep in mind if you want to go protestant or reformed it could be smart to wait with the fifth colony in each region before you have shifted to get a CN of your religion. Take coast, trade power and start with caribbean early to take the best for less. Money can be a problem early because you will have 5 colonist working and maybe are forced to fight wars at home.
Exploration is for colonising, naval FL and CB
Expansion is for colonist, trader and CB
Quantity is for getting a army big enough to compete and manpower. A small enough army can't compete no matter how good the quality is
Further on you should get :
Administrative for FL and cheap mercenaries. Even with quantity manpower will be a problem and by this time the money shall flow to Lübeck where you have the greatest fleet in the world and whole denmark which means the limit on mercenaries won't be money, but how many avaible.
Maritime for cheapest and strongest merchant fleet ever seen. With this you won't need big ships and can instead just hunt down all fleet with your 12ducat light ships with +30% combat ability. And no slow ships so it don't need to split to cover to much
Defensive/Quality/Quantity: Reasons for those are well known and only thing is that you should get two of those. Myself I would take defensive first and then one of the others
Influence: For not getting hated that much, to take colonies when the war goal is elsewhere without to much penalty and to get as much as possible from your subject(which will be many). Also liberty desire will be lower and more vassals and alliances are avaible(not right written?)

When at war, use the terrain. Norway is filled with it and always mind it when attacking or defending.

Further on luck is always a factor on how easy it will be, if your early rulers are good both in monarch point, but also in shock and siege it will be much easier to take on Sweden early on and you will crush Spain and Portugal in Amerika and the race there. Also the situation in Europe will "never" be the same twice and here your luck can play a big role.

And lastly. NEVER underestimate Sweden before they are dead. Even thou you have taken some land from them they will always grow bigger with ideas and they have cheap mercenaries and a high quality army.

This was the way I used to get the Norwegian wood achievement. I won't promise results every time, but it will help a lot.

EDIT: To answers your question, they are playable in a good way and very fun where you must use their strenghts and cover their weaknesses. This is only one way to do it so it can be very interesting to find other ways to do it, but still, Sweden is your main foe and this will happen every time.

 

[Frungy78]

If you're going for Norwegian Wood, I don't think you can form Scandanavia. So be careful about that!

 

[Emir of Aleppo]

Firstly thanks for all the tips and advice. I started my game last night. Sweden almost immediately declared independence and tore my 6000 men army into pieces before heading south defeating the Danes consistently in several battles. The Scots had supported Swedish independence so I also had a band of merry Scots running up and down the Norwegian fjords. The Danes eventually gave up giving Sweden some territories in the South of modern day Sweden and independence of course.

Denmark is pretty weak atm and I have saved enough gold (200ish) to built a decent army and declare Independence (will shortly also have the Russians and Poles supporting my independence). The only problem is my people dont want independence because they just love being the Danes slaves :/. We are historic best bud buds and despite my insult the Danes love us back. Any advice on how to quickly destroy this nordic love story?

 

[Thrake]

Firstly thanks for all the tips and advice. I started my game last night. Sweden almost immediately declared independence and tore my 6000 men army into pieces before heading south defeating the Danes consistently in several battles. The Scots had supported Swedish independence so I also had a band of merry Scots running up and down the Norwegian fjords. The Danes eventually gave up giving Sweden some territories in the South of modern day Sweden and independence of course.

Denmark is pretty weak atm and I have saved enough gold (200ish) to built a decent army and declare Independence (will shortly also have the Russians and Poles supporting my independence). The only problem is my people dont want independence because they just love being the Danes slaves :/. We are historic best bud buds and despite my insult the Danes love us back. Any advice on how to quickly destroy this nordic love story?

You should be able to declare war for independance nevertheless. You don't really need much of an army. Sweden probably doesn't like you and won't allow you military access, and definately will not give it to the Danes, so the only access will be by sea. Given that their fleet probably got sank by the Swedes, all it takes to easily beat them is a better fleet to trap their army on the islands and just siege provinces on "mainland Europe".

In terms of alliance, if you can keep your with Poland, you're almost guaranteed not to loose, as long as they keep their PU over Lithuania. Muscovy is a nice ally too, especially as Sweden/Novgorod usually ally one another (thus Muscovy doesn't like them), but being allied with the means you'll get destroyed by Sweden when helping them, while not being allied means you can wait for Swedish armies to be dying in Russia (winter and strong army usually meas that Swedens suffers a lot) to be opportunistic and crush Sweden with the help of your allies. Unless you can bring a strong alliance, it's not an easy fight because Swedish armies are strong, but all you need is the one single 1 BT copper province. Take that one no matter what, it's hardly worth warscore but is more rich than the rest of your country. That's all you need to tip the balance in your favor.

Note that not taking Danish lands means that Danemark will still love you, and it is one of the very few usual rivals of Sweden. An alliance with them can be worth not claiming lands as few nations will want to help you in offensive wars against Sweden (they come with a powerful navy; both can be enough to beat the Swedish one and naval superiority is strategically important to block the straight of Sweden); then conquer Sweden with their help and then drop the alliance and annex the Danes as well.

 

[perhje]

Firstly thanks for all the tips and advice. I started my game last night. Sweden almost immediately declared independence and tore my 6000 men army into pieces before heading south defeating the Danes consistently in several battles. The Scots had supported Swedish independence so I also had a band of merry Scots running up and down the Norwegian fjords. The Danes eventually gave up giving Sweden some territories in the South of modern day Sweden and independence of course.

Denmark is pretty weak atm and I have saved enough gold (200ish) to built a decent army and declare Independence (will shortly also have the Russians and Poles supporting my independence). The only problem is my people dont want independence because they just love being the Danes slaves :/. We are historic best bud buds and despite my insult the Danes love us back. Any advice on how to quickly destroy this nordic love story?

When your armies built up and you get support from Poland and Muscovy your people will have a high liberty desire because of the strenght of your "alliance" and if you don't take something from Denmark from this point in the independence war, they won't hate you after the war, even if you get your independence. Then you have Poland, Muscovy and Denmark by your side which will make it easy to beat Sweden if they will answer the call and they aren't busy elsewhere.
Also try to build temples in all of your provinces if you haven't. You have many provinces but not much BT in each so if can build them you can almost double your BT and tax income, whiich gives you more money and higher forcelimits. Also armories and marketplaces are good buildings to build, but keep in mind all those building are taking monarch points so if you lagging behind in technology it may be better to not do it.
On last thing. If you get mission to build a level 2 fort in your provinces, take it and execute it, then your provinces will get relatively much better base manpower that also will help.

 

[neondt]

Firstly thanks for all the tips and advice. I started my game last night. Sweden almost immediately declared independence and tore my 6000 men army into pieces before heading south defeating the Danes consistently in several battles.

We did warn you to immediately ally Sweden