How Independent Are the Commonwealths?

[Dralshyar]

TL;DR

If I flip the UK Fascist, what impact will that have on Canada, South Africa, & ANZAC?

For my 2nd HOI4 Playthrough (after establishing the Grand Greater Swedish Reich), I intend to flip the UK Fascist, but still oppose the Axis. With the goal of strengthening the Empire, reclaiming Ireland, refuting the 1931 Statute of Westminster, and ultimately ensuring perpetual British global hegemony. However, with the current game mechanic, if I flip the UK Fascist, what impact will that have on the Commonwealth nations? Would a player have to dismantle the Allies and puppet... erh liberate the former Dominions, or would one be able to install Fascist governments via the use of political power?

 

[Denkt]

Some may be puppets others may play out as any other independent nation. UK do have some national focuses that effects them.

 

[Red_warning]

Not relevant to your question, but may I ask how your Sweden game felt? Hard, easy? Fun, boring? I intent to choose Sweden for my first play through as well

 

[Dralshyar]

Not relevant to your question, but may I ask how your Sweden game felt? Hard, easy? Fun, boring? I intent to choose Sweden for my first play through as well

Nonexistant haha, I was not graced with a beta invite. So on my first start up I intend to liberate the Scandanavian & Karelian peninsulas, as well as Leningrad and potentially New Sweden.


It will be interesting to see how those national focuses pan out in an ahistorical UK playthrough, especially if the UK is at war with some of the former Dominions.

 

[Caesar15]

I was not graced with a beta invite.

Did they tell you to say this?

 

[Dralshyar]

Did they tell you to say this?

I know nothings.

 

[RMS Gigantic]

As someone planning to enact War Plan Red, which involves a hostile American takeover of Canada following a declaration of war against Great Britain, I need to know this as well.

For example, if I declare war on Great Britain, does Canada automatically get ordered to mobilize against me as well? Would I incur a penalty for invading Canada if Great Britain declares war on me, even though the former is a part of the latter's commonwealth?

 

[DmUa]

As someone planning to enact War Plan Red, which involves a hostile American takeover of Canada following a declaration of war against Great Britain, I need to know this as well.

- i hope Canada would be able to implement their Defence Scheme No. 1 against evil people like you

 

[Dralshyar]

As someone planning to enact War Plan Red, which involves a hostile American takeover of Canada following a declaration of war against Great Britain, I need to know this as well.

For example, if I declare war on Great Britain, does Canada automatically get ordered to mobilize against me as well? Would I incur a penalty for invading Canada if Great Britain declares war on me, even though the former is a part of the latter's commonwealth?

If I remember correctly from the twitch broadcast, at the 1936 start the UK & Canada both start the game as members of the Allie faction. So DoW on either one would drag in the other as far as gameplay goes, without something ahistorical happening beforehand.

Best watch out for those moose cavalry.

 

[RMS Gigantic]

- i hope Canada would be able to implement their Defence Scheme No. 1 against evil people like you

Too bad (for you, at least) Defense Scheme No. 1 was scrapped a few years before War Plan Red got drawn up. Why? Because the people in charge in Canada knew that fighting an American invasion would only be prolonging the inevitable while needlessly sacrificing Canadian lives.

With that said, the game's AI might try something like that anyway, but unfortunately for them I'll have sheer numbers and even a fake war plan prepared. If my multiplayer buddy is available for conquering Denmark and giving me Greenland while I'm still in the planning stages, I can even completely surround Canada on virtually all sides an basically choke the place.

All cities that are too well-defended for my land invasions will be shore bombarded and carpet bombed until they're no longer fortified enough to repel a land invasion. Mines will be laid in major commercial ports, especially Halifax, so that, when working in conjunction with the US Navy, conducting trade and receiving British reinforcements will be flat out impossible.

These are all details laid out in the actual War Plan Red (with the exception of Greenland, though the US did try to buy that plot of land after World War II), which I intend to replicate in HoI4.

Canada, we will form a northern North American fortress! Combined with the seized British possessions in the Americas (especially the Caribbean), the red menace will never be able to penetrate our new singular border!

 

[DmUa]

Too bad (for you, at least) Defense Scheme No. 1 was scrapped a few years before War Plan Red got drawn up. Why? Because the people in charge in Canada knew that fighting an American invasion would only be prolonging the inevitable while needlessly sacrificing Canadian lives.

- as far as i understand it was scraped because US-British relations improved and so probability of US invasion to Canada vaned, and not because of Canada's high command sudden realization that they would not be able to compete with US in terms of rough power. After all Defense Scheme No. 1 was not plan of defense but actually a plan of pre-emptive strike that would nullify or other way make further war costlier/harder for US while also giving time for UK to send more paramed... reinforcements. Which makes it more in common with Japanese war plans.

Canada, we will form a northern North American fortress! Combined with the seized British possessions in the Americas (especially the Caribbean), the red menace will never be able to penetrate our new singular border!

- i presume you mean red coat menace in that case?

 

[The_Meme_Man]

It should really be independent of the rest of the empire excluding India. Canada, South Africa, Australia, and New Zealand would not approve of Britain changing ideologies and factions, and would/should either look towards France (if they still remain), the US (if they are Allies leaning), or Canada takes charge. India should despise it (since a fascist or communist India is anti-Britain), but should still be forced to tag along, because empire. Realistically, if Britain went fascist, the viceroy would immediately be replaced to support fascist Britain, but expect seriously less manpower and resources from India because you suddenly decided you were too good for Bengali Lancers defending your islands.

It really shouldn't matter because the British Isles alone was able to provide a lot still be a formidable great power.

Now, opposing the Axis as a fascist country, I dunno. I mean, it should be possible, but wouldn't Germany be scratching its head over why good ol' nationalist Britain is attacking good ol' nationalist Germany? Maybe this would also mean, like, if the Axis were to "win" the war there could be all-out fighting between Germany, Italy, and Japan. I mean, the possibility of conflict regardless of ideology would be cool, but you really have to convince your own people why you would attack the people with the same ethos as you.

 

[RMS Gigantic]

- as far as i understand it was scraped because US-British relations improved and so probability of US invasion to Canada vaned, and not because of Canada's high command sudden realization that they would not be able to compete with US in terms of rough power. After all Defense Scheme No. 1 was not plan of defense but actually a plan of pre-emptive strike that would nullify or other way make further war costlier/harder for US while also giving time for UK to send more paramed... reinforcements. Which makes it more in common with Japanese war plans.

Check the years: Defense Scheme No. 1 was scrapped in 1928, whereas War Plan Red's first version came in 1931. Two of the biggest issues that were leading to US/UK hostilities during the '20s and '30s, which were the two nations trying to shaft each other in treaties and Great Britain refusing to pay the United States reparations from World War I until Great Britain herself got her reparations from the allied powers and Germany, weren't solved until World War II's aftermath.

Even immediately after World War II, the Anglo-American loan should demonstrate that it took a while for the US and UK to develop their "special relationship."

- i presume you mean red coat menace in that case?

Indeed, I mean the "Red empire" referred to in War Plan Red, which is to say Great Britain and every dominion in her kingdom!

 

[Dralshyar]

Now, opposing the Axis as a fascist country, I dunno. I mean, it should be possible, but wouldn't Germany be scratching its head over why good ol' nationalist Britain is attacking good ol' nationalist Germany? Maybe this would also mean, like, if the Axis were to "win" the war there could be all-out fighting between Germany, Italy, and Japan. I mean, the possibility of conflict regardless of ideology would be cool, but you really have to convince your own people why you would attack the people with the same ethos as you.

There probably would have been a lot of overlap in ideaology between a fascist Britain & Nazi Germany, however for the sake of having an interesting playthrough, the concept of a super independent British Empire attempting to re-assert its imperial authority globablly at the sake of France & the USA and contain would be imperial upstarts such as the Japanese & the Germans. Ahistorical for sure, but mostly just to have an ultra challenging game.

I'm mostly just curious as to how the Commonwealth nations are going to be modeled in game, as while in hindsight they were well on their way to becoming independent nations, at the time it was still a question that was very much up in the air, with commonwealths interpreting the Statute of Westminster very differently during the opening of WW2. (Canada & South Africa declaring war independently while ANZAC automatically following the UK into the war.) Obviously if flipping Governments would have had a real world impact on relations in the Commonwealth, but I'm purely curious as to how the in-game mechanics are going to be set up for the UK's relations with their former Dominions.

Canada, we will form a northern North American fortress! Combined with the seized British possessions in the Americas (especially the Caribbean), the red menace will never be able to penetrate our new singular border!

We need to do a multiplayer match together good sir.

 

[scroggin]

TL;DR

If I flip the UK Fascist, what impact will that have on Canada, South Africa, & ANZAC?

For my 2nd HOI4 Playthrough (after establishing the Grand Greater Swedish Reich), I intend to flip the UK Fascist, but still oppose the Axis. With the goal of strengthening the Empire, reclaiming Ireland, refuting the 1931 Statute of Westminster, and ultimately ensuring perpetual British global hegemony. However, with the current game mechanic, if I flip the UK Fascist, what impact will that have on the Commonwealth nations? Would a player have to dismantle the Allies and puppet... erh liberate the former Dominions, or would one be able to install Fascist governments via the use of political power?

In hoi4 there are national focuses effecting britains relations with the commonwealth. I assume they will get it right this time and have the commonwealth nations allied to britain. So if you could turn britain fascist by elections you should have that relation intact. But a civil war would see the commonwealth fighting against the fascist side.

In real life the commonwealth nations were loyal to the crown. The king or queen of england was head of state in the commonwealth nations. Their armed forces, members of paliament and various other officials swore alliegence to the king. So if Britain went fascist without removing the king it might have even been possible for the commonwealth to be swept up in the same nationalism. But any coup that replaced the king would be seen as treason by the commonwealth.

 

[mdw1985]

I guess this questions could be answered in the gb dd, which might come soon after holidays...

 

[RMS Gigantic]

We need to do a multiplayer match together good sir.

We shall! My plans for HoI4 revolve entirely around playing out innumerable different scenarios where I act upon War Plan Red as the United States.

My excuse is that Great Britain kept on refusing to pay back the United States for all of the World War One lend-lease. It was only fully paid back in 1945 or so. Thus, in on multiplayer servers with a Great Britain player especially, 1935-1940, I'll make a point to ask for Canada as a replacement for war reparations, and if Great Britain refuses, I'll start a war over it.

 

[ddudee]

I'll make a point to ask for Canada as a replacement for war reparations, and if Great Britain refuses, I'll start a war over it.

Let's do that multiplayer! I would like to play as the UK!

In advance I inform you that I will join Germany should you press that claim to Canada (It would be historical, Hitler wanted an alliance with the UK)!

 

[RMS Gigantic]

Let's do that multiplayer! I would like to play as the UK!

In advance I inform you that I will join Germany should you press that claim to Canada (It would be historical, Hitler wanted an alliance with the UK)!

Excellent! The first game I'll play when I get the game is a multiplayer session with a friend of mine, where I'll form a faction closely connected with the Axis--especially Japan, without joining it, and then declare war on Britain without needing to worry about Japan (this might be a really consistent approach for me, since not embargoing Japan should make them a lot less likely to attack me, and because War Plan Red-Orange was found to be a bit of a disaster scenario according to the war planners).

I figure an AI UK and an invasion of Canada should be enough of a mismatch for me to effectively learn the game, as a tutorial.

If you want to study up, in all wars against Great Britain, I will be executing the actual War Plan Red as closely as the game permits me, right down to troop strengths and movements.

 

[Decolonization]

We shall! My plans for HoI4 revolve entirely around playing out innumerable different scenarios where I act upon War Plan Red as the United States.

My excuse is that Great Britain kept on refusing to pay back the United States for all of the World War One lend-lease. It was only fully paid back in 1945 or so. Thus, in on multiplayer servers with a Great Britain player especially, 1935-1940, I'll make a point to ask for Canada as a replacement for war reparations, and if Great Britain refuses, I'll start a war over it.

That's if we can make claims and threats to other nations or demand territory or give/sell territory...

And if we can give territory, to whom? Allies? Enemies?