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Granatenwerfer

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Just a short question regarding that screenshot taken from the technology screen: How important are military tactics?



@admin: Please correct the headline. I can't. Thanks.

Done :)
 
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unmerged(191902)

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Just a short question regarding that screenshot taken from the technology screen: How important are military tactics?



@admin: Please correct the headline. I can't. Thanks.

In 1.1 they made troops less likely to die, which is one reason why the endgame battles were so bloodless. But IDK how it works in 1.2
 

Peter Ebbesen

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Military tactics are incredibly important.

In every combat phase the damage your units do is calculated based on their stats, leader and terrain modifier, and a random roll, and whichever enemy units they are attacking then take these casualties divided by 1+their_tactics as real casualties. I.e. 100% tactics means that you take half the casualties.

This is how it worked in 1.1. and it is how it works now.

That battles are bloodier now is because the base damage a unit does is no longer based on myAttackValue vs. yourDefenceValue but straight out on myAttackValue (if attacker) and myDefenceValue (if defender) to the tone of 10% more damage per point. The result is that the damageoutput increase through attack/defence tech keeps up with tactics' ability to reduce damage in 1.2 where in 1.1, with attack and defence values increasing apace and the difference between attack and defence being important for damage dealt, damageoutput tended to decrease over time.

ANYHOW, the short story is that tactics is THE most important military variable at the moment. Nothing else comes even close. That doesn't mean that you should only research tactics, of course - high tactics and starting value attack/defence won't win wars - but it does mean that unless you are specifically gunning for unlocking certain units or abilities (say Machine Guns for colonisation) you should prioritise tactics research. Fortunately, that is exactly the same conclusion that anybody analysing the combat system in 1.1 would have reached so despite a change to the fundamental combat equations, tactics is king! :)
 

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Military tactics are incredibly important.
...

well said! If you find yourself in battles where it feels like your troops are firing nerf bullets, it's probably because you are behind on tactics.
 

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This is why trying to tangle with GPs early tends to end in a lot of death.
 

Granatenwerfer

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Thank you very much!
Very interesting. Wow, even Peter Ebbesen answered my question. Thanks a lot! :):):)
 

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Military tactics are incredibly important.

In every combat phase the damage your units do is calculated based on their stats, leader and terrain modifier, and a random roll, and whichever enemy units they are attacking then take these casualties divided by 1+their_tactics as real casualties. I.e. 100% tactics means that you take half the casualties.

If I understand you correctly, the first tactics tech gives you +100% tactics and thus half the casualties. If you research the 6th tactics tech, then you only go from 1/5th to 1/6th of the casualties, right?

Anyway, how did you discover this? Experimentation? Thats hardcore!
 

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Peter Ebbesen

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If I understand you correctly, the first tactics tech gives you +100% tactics and thus half the casualties.
Right.
If you research the 6th tactics tech, then you only go from 1/5th to 1/6th of the casualties, right?
Nearly. You are off by one. Since every army leadership tech gives +1, going from the 5th to the 6th is going from 1/6 to 1/7 casualties, just the same as going from 0th to 1st is going from 1/1 to 1/2 casualties.

It is the same deal as with morale, relatively speaking the first army leadership upgrade or two are the most important because they has the biggest impact, but from a practical point of view, given how research costs increase by tier and you are prevented from beelining down the tactics/morale discipline by the earliest-date system, by the time you can research a new tactics/morale tech it is almost guaranteed that you'll have researched enough of the attack/defence techs for the tactics/morale tech to be a better choice from a solely military perspective than any other military tech you can research at the time.

Anyway, how did you discover this? Experimentation? Thats hardcore!
I would love to claim credit for testing, since it is the sort of thing I test for when I get interested enough in a game and can't find the answer elsewhere, but the answer is much simpler in this case: I asked Johan some time ago and he told me. :D

Granatenwerfer said:
Mr. Ebbesen is one of the makers of Victoria II.
No. I am a betatester of Victoria II (when I can find the time, which is seldom), not a developer.
 

Granatenwerfer

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I thought a person who has such deep knowledge about the program code must be a developer or maker or something else, because this good knowledge you have goes far beyond a 'normal' betatester has.
:)

Good to have you here! :)
 
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Granatenwerfer

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I would like to extend the question regarding military tactics to what forts do regarding avoiding losses. Do forts work in the same way like military tactics?
 

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After realizing the importance of Tactics ans researching this first, it fixed a lot of the frustration of waging war for me.

My biggest problem was my soldiers staying alive, and with tactics at least in the early game it reduces the damage your unit takes by a good bit. Now if only my favorite pansy nation to play, Hesse Kassel, stopped being instantly taken into the new nation of Germany whenever the gutter crown event fires, I might actually stand a chance of expanding my territory in 1.2.