How exactly does the Scion origin work?

[Urloc the Great]

I've been wondering if the Scion origin can spawn more than the maximum number of Fallen Empires and what Fallen Empires can get spawned.

I started a game as authoritarian, militarist and xenophobe and oddly my Fallen Empire was spiritualist. Why did that happen?

Can I "force spawn" (or at least drastically increase my chances for) a war in heaven by putting two Scion origins in my game and making them fanatic materialist and fanatic spiritualist?

 

[Dragatus]

The patron fallen empire doesn't use your ethics. Whenever possible it will be either materialist or spiritualist. It won't exceed the number of spawned FEs, except if you set number of FEs to 0 in which case it will spawn a materialist/spiritualist FE despite the settings.

 

[FluffyVanguard]

From memory: You're FE overlord can either be the fan. materialist or the fan. spiritualist one. Can't be one of the three others. Which one is random, you can get the materialist FE as a spiritualist. You can't say which one you get before you start the game.
If FE's are set to spawn, your overlord will be one of them, that is take one of the spawn slots. Otherwise they will spawn as a single system FE. So yes, Scion can spawn more than the number of FEs set to spawn, but only if that number is zero.
If there are multiple Scions, they may share the same overlord. I'm not sure if the first two scions always have different FEs. But the third will have the same as one of the other two. They will all have the same overlord if only one FE is allowed to spawn.

 

[Bytesol]

From memory: You're FE overlord can either be the fan. materialist or the fan. spiritualist one. Can't be one of the three others. Which one is random, you can get the materialist FE as a spiritualist. You can't say which one you get before you start the game.
If FE's are set to spawn, your overlord will be one of them, that is take one of the spawn slots. Otherwise they will spawn as a single system FE. So yes, Scion can spawn more than the number of FEs set to spawn, but only if that number is zero.
If there are multiple Scions, they may share the same overlord. I'm not sure if the first two scions always have different FEs. But the third will have the same as one of the other two. They will all have the same overlord if only one FE is allowed to spawn.

Weirdly, regular spiritualists would be given a random overlord but Fan. Spiritualist scions were guaranteed to get the Spiritualist Fallen Empire. The same doesnt apply to materialists where if your empire has any degree of materialism it is given the Materialist Fallen Empire as an overlord.

 

[FluffyVanguard]

Weirdly, regular spiritualists would be given a random overlord but Fan. Spiritualist scions were guaranteed to get the Spiritualist Fallen Empire. The same doesnt apply to materialists where if your empire has any degree of materialism it is given the Materialist Fallen Empire as an overlord.

Interesting. I only ever played Scion as normal spiritualist or unaligned on that axis. Good to know.

 

[MordridBlack]

Can I "force spawn" (or at least drastically increase my chances for) a war in heaven by putting two Scion origins in my game and making them fanatic materialist and fanatic spiritualist?

No

and there is a reason for that

the origin is unique


thus having two empires in the game, even if one is player driven and the other is ai driven, may cause some...issues

it is always recommended to have 1 of any unique thing in a game if you plan to have it in the game at all



ex: if you are using Random Trinary 2, another empire that you are attempting to force spawn can not also use Random Trinary 2; as the game views this as a conflict of data and thus spawns in another empire in the force spawned empires place

 

[Geodynamis]

Why doesn't the Xenophile FE (Enigmatic Observers) ever get chosen to be the Scion's overlord?

 

[Ohirra]

Why doesn't the Xenophile FE (Enigmatic Observers) ever get chosen to be the Scion's overlord?

They only observe, and do not direct the development of the younger races (specifically, yours). They're enigmatic observers, not enigmatic influencers.

 

[Nevars]

They only observe, and do not direct the development of the younger races (specifically, yours). They're enigmatic observers, not enigmatic influencers.

Does this mean that spiritualist and materialist FE are rocking vtuber for us Scion? Lol

 

[Mcgan]

A bit more info:
First, the Scion origin give an extremely high chance (a guarantee really) to spawn both the Spiritualist and Materialist FEs.

Spoiler

\common\fallen_empires\00_fallen_empire.txt

# Materialist
fallen_empire_1 = {
    graphical_culture = "fallen_empire_02"
    initializer = "fallen_1"

    weight_modifier = {
        base = 100
        modifier = {
            factor = 99999
            has_origin = origin_scion
        }
    }

# Spiritualist
fallen_empire_2 = {
    graphical_culture = "fallen_empire_01"
    initializer = "fallen_2"

    weight_modifier = {
        base = 100
        modifier = {
            factor = 99999
            has_origin = origin_scion
        }
    }

So if you set the number of FEs to at least 2, these will always spawn.

But if you set it to only 1 or 0, then it will be one or the other, regardless of your ethics. Meaning you can be a Fanatic Materialist with F. Spiritualist FE as your overlord in this situation.

However, as long as both FEs exist, spiritualists and materialists will always get the corresponding FE.

Spoiler

\events\game_start.txt

        ### ORIGINS

        # Scion
        every_playable_country = {
            limit = { has_origin = origin_scion }
            country_event = { id = origin.5 }
        }

\events\origin_events_1.txt

# Scion Setup
country_event = {
    id = origin.5
    hide_window = yes

    is_triggered_only = yes

    immediate = {
        set_country_flag = first_contact_event
        set_country_flag = Story2 # Already encountered spacefarers
        # Spawn mini-FE if player turned off Fallen Empires but picked this Origin anyway...
        if = {
            limit = {
                NOT = {
                    any_country = {
                        OR = {
                            is_country_type = fallen_empire
                            is_country_type = awakened_fallen_empire
                        }
                    }
                }
            }
            set_country_flag = scion_needs_fe
            if = {
                limit = { is_spiritualist = yes }
                random_system = {
                    limit = { has_owner = no }
                    spawn_system = { initializer = "scion_fallen_2" }
                }
            }
            else_if = {
                limit = { is_materialist = yes }
                random_system = {
                    limit = { has_owner = no }
                    spawn_system = { initializer = "scion_fallen_1" }
                }
            }