How effective are veteran infantry?

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Stug_Life

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I was just curius about how much better veteran divisions are than green division. For example if I took 2 copies of the same division but one was freshly deployed while the other had seen combat for 1 year, how much better would the veteran division be? Additionally, how quickly do division rank up and how does a division lose veterancy?
 

Le Creep

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Green divisions get a -25% combat penalty. Trained get no modifier. Regular gets 25% combat bonus. Seasoned 50% etc.
Units, especially infantry, level up extremely slowly unless you're fighting really weak enemy troops. Adding a field hospital support battalion will help with veterancy gain.
 

Stolen Rutters

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Units gain xp from combat and lose it in combat. Hospitals improve the ratio.
+1

A bit more accurately, gain exp from combat and loses unit manpower due to casualties. Replacement manpower is green by default and reduces the experience level of the unit proportional to your losses. Hospitals reduce the amount of green manpower needed to replenish the unit.

I noticed fighting weak units improves veteran level faster too. Makes sense, since reduced casualties keeps experience level high.
 

War Emblem

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It is fairly easy to get up to level 3, much harder to get past that. Field Hospitals are a must if you want to get past level 3.
 

Stug_Life

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Awesome, thanks for the quick responses everyone! Now with armored divisions, do field hospitals help them keep experience or is it just matinence that does that?
 

Bryartuck

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Awesome, thanks for the quick responses everyone! Now with armored divisions, do field hospitals help them keep experience or is it just matinence that does that?

Veterancy level is strictly related to manpower experience (not equipment), so yes hospitals do help armor units keep experience as well
 

Stolen Rutters

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Awesome, thanks for the quick responses everyone! Now with armored divisions, do field hospitals help them keep experience or is it just matinence that does that?
Maintenance is for equipment.

Theoretically I can imagine a scenario where maintenance would save manpower. You lose tanks because they break down, so your unit fights at a penalty until replacement tanks reach the unit, so slightly less manpower could be lost because tanks aren't breaking down in the fight. Not sure how the numbers fall out.
 

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In my understanding there is a "feature" that units only gain experience if the battle lasted long enough, 1 day I think. That means if the combat is too one-sided you will actually lose experience since some will die and be replaced by green troops, while you didn't receive any XP, someone please correct me if I'm wrong
 

Dalwin

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+1

A bit more accurately, gain exp from combat and loses unit manpower due to casualties. Replacement manpower is green by default and reduces the experience level of the unit proportional to your losses. Hospitals reduce the amount of green manpower needed to replenish the unit.

I noticed fighting weak units improves veteran level faster too. Makes sense, since reduced casualties keeps experience level high.
To take this a bit further, my experience has been that tier 1 hospitals are still insufficient to allow maintaining even trained status through an extensive campaign, even as the winning side. Tier 2 hospitals on the other hand seem to be enough for most units to not only maintain their level but to gain slightly. I can only assume that tier 3 will be the key to having more than a very small number of units at higher than regular status.

To answer the OP's question directly, 175% of base stats for a veteran unit compared to 75% for green makes the former a bit more than twice as good.
 

Dalwin

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Are field hospitals worth with for Russia that has plenty of manpower to spare?
For Russia or almost anyone else for that matter, the reduction in manpower loss is not really important. Manpower is too plentiful in this game and conscription laws too easily elevated. The more important effect is the one for retaining experience.

As a further example for Russia, the last time I played them in MP, I got invaded in Spring of '41 and the fighting on the Eastern Front was heavy until the war ended in December of '44. Sometime in early '43 I jumped to total economic mobilization which costs a whopping 3% recruitable population. At the end of the war I had roughly 400 divisions and had of course lost a few here and there during the war (maybe 50 all told.)

At no point did I go above volunteer only. Yes I took NF choices that gave additional manpower, but still that is pretty ridiculous don't you think?
 

a432rar

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You are saying yes field hospital are definitely worth it for your best units no matter the country but you need at least hospital 2 preferable hospital 3? How about just for your normal line inf?
 

Stug_Life

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I have a random question that dosent relate to this actual thread question. Has the bug that prevented ai Independent State of Croatia been fixed yet? Additionally, is there any way to actually form Independent State of Croatia without taking the German national focuses?
 

Dalwin

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I can see where you think that is what I said. Let me rephrase it. Hospital 1 is not worth even considering. If you go hospitals at all, I recommend going with a minimum of tier 2.

As Russia I never go with hospitals at all. It just does not work well with their style of warfare and they absolutely don't care about the manpower aspect.

I usually don't go with hospitals at all to be honest, though I am considering doing so in my upcoming MP game as Germany. I probably won't actually make the decision one way or the other until 1937. If I do use hospitals as Germany it will be only for my line infantry. For panzer divisions I think minimizing the loss of the expensive tanks is more important and that means both a logistics and a maintenance company. Add engineers and some extra soft attack from artillery as well as AA and you have no slot for the hospital.

I also think the hospitals are less valuable in armored units anyway for a few reasons. Combat losses tend to be lower because of hardness and armor etc. They just take lower losses. Also their battles tend to be shorter so less chance to be gaining experience to begin with.

One then has to ask oneself about the relative importance of your armored and infantry contingents in an operation like Barbarossa. If all you expect you infantry to do is to hold the line, advance when able and reduce pockets, there is no point in worrying about hospitals for them either. If you expect you infantry to push the line on their own without always having tank support then the answer might be to include them.
 

Dalwin

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I have a random question that dosent relate to this actual thread question. Has the bug that prevented ai Independent State of Croatia been fixed yet? Additionally, is there any way to actually form Independent State of Croatia without taking the German national focuses?
why would you ask such an entirely unrelated question is this thread instead of starting a new one for it?

Assuming that Germany actually controls the land and doesn't just occupy it, there is no NF needed to form the state. Just release it.
 

Stug_Life

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why would you ask such an entirely unrelated question is this thread instead of starting a new one for it?

Assuming that Germany actually controls the land and doesn't just occupy it, there is no NF needed to form the state. Just release it.
Thanks for the quick response Dalwin, although its still a shame, when you simply release Croatia it dosent have the territory it did during WW2
 

Dalwin

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I think the game insists on releasing entire states and not just parts of them, but the states in this game have more functions than to merely act as political divisions. They are also economic divisions and supply areas etc. I am assuming there are play balance considerations in the area that made the historical boundary of that particular puppet impractical to duplicate exactly.
 

Zwirbaum

(Formerly known as Zwireq)
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Jun 2, 2011
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alright one last veteran question, what happens if I take a unit that is veteran and then I change the division template to another already existing one?
Depends.

If different unit types inside the template etc. Experience will drop as a result. If bigger division size than old one, experience will drop etc.