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anomanderus

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Playing a game as Serbia which is massively improved from AHD due to my ability to gain my provinces back through crises instead of scheming for fifty years to encircle the ottomans in a web of more powerful states to regain my country and then spending the rest of the game sitting around watching as Austria is never vulnerable enough to attack. Anyway after that run-on sentence I should explain that I have the highest army tech in 1887 of any nation. However I have noticed- repeatedly- that vastly inferior armies such as Spain with its 7/30 tech and the Worker's Commonwealth with its 11/30 are somehow able to fight on par with my 18/30 even in situations where my general is better and I have equal or more soldiers. How exactly do militaries work in HOD then?
 

GC13

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What army composition are you and they using? Artillery is completely sick, and it's a massive force multiplier. If you had a save for me I could look at it and tell you with more precision what was going on.
 

yezhanquan

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First of all, I assumed that your slider for military supplies is at 100% (If not, put it there right away). Be aware of the terrain as well as troop composition. HoD seems to go hard for the idea of a mixed military. If you're spamming one or two troop types, you'll want to train other types.
 

unmerged(624310)

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The dice roller hates the Player. Seriously. Pay attention to relative dice rolls. I never win any fights without at least 2 to 1. Sometimes that's not enough. I just got steam rolled by Bavaria at better than 6 to 1 their favor for losses. Rolls like 2-7 2-6 1-6 0-8 Insert rage quit here.

I had twice as many troops as them, Good army composition, decent generals. Outnumbered them in the fighting. Doesn't matter, dice roller screws you every time.
 
Last edited:

GC13

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That's just confirmation bias on your part. The die rolls are fair.

It's true that a bad die roll in the first round of combat can completely mess you up though.
 

delra

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That's just confirmation bias on your part. The die rolls are fair.

It's true that a bad die roll in the first round of combat can completely mess you up though.

As it should. This game is already so trivial to play, some things must be taken out of player's control.
 

GC13

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As it should. This game is already so trivial to play, some things must be taken out of player's control.
Which is why the 3.02 patch has increased the frequency of potato blight, and added in a new Pandemic event that mainly targets Craftsmen and Clerks.</sarcasm>
 

DominusNovus

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My advice is that, against other civilized powers, have an equal Infantry to Artillery ratio in your armies, with enough cavalry to fill in the possible gaps.
 
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unmerged(624310)

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As it should. This game is already so trivial to play, some things must be taken out of player's control.

No, this is the exact opposite of good game design, especially in a game claiming to belong to the strategy class.

Planning, preparation, good tactics, strategy. These are the hallmarks of this type of game. Every aspect and factor should be under the players control. Some things we have limited abilties to affect (like what pops do) but they act in understood ways, and influencing their behavior is possible.

Taking control of the game away from the player is the cardinal sin of game design, different genres discuss it, MMO's most commonly. Its why abilties that remove your ability to control your character are rare, and you have options to escape even then. Its why table top games like D&D, where the die roll is very important still gives the player, the target, a saving throw instead of having the attacker determine how effective a spell was. Its about player control, if weather you fry or not is determined by your saving throw rather than the attackers decision, the player feels better because they had power over the outcome.

Even the "random" events in Viky2 are based on a MTTH system. And when die rolls favor us we don't mind because its good, and the AI is incapable of being frustrated, but when bad dice rolls plague us player enjoyment goes down. Others shurg and say the RNG is working properly and miss the point. RNG is a terrible way to manage anything. RNG is only Random over large scales, small scale you will have biased results. You want weighted number generation to prevent a bias short term. If I've just rolled a 9 i should be less likely to roll high next roll, if I've just rolled a 0 I should be more likely to roll high, unfortunately with an RNG, five very high rolls in a row is pretty common.

Wining and losing should be about player input not the player spectating. Especially when it comes to one of the few binary decisions in the game, the outcome of a battle. My economy doing its own thing is fine, don't particularly care if I'm making my money off paper or furniture, or both, the outcome is on a curve (my income) and several options will bring about a stable economy. Losing a battle or two could have me losing that war.

That's just confirmation bias on your part. The die rolls are fair.

It's true that a bad die roll in the first round of combat can completely mess you up though.

No, its not. I pay attention. How many troops I need in an area as a solid defense, or to go on the offensive is important information to a military commander. When I say I need at least 2 to 1 (and usually more like 3 to 1 or better) or I never win any fights. I mean it. This is not hyperbole, even sitting on max level forts, where one would expect I'd crush the enemy in my favor quite heavily, I get even losses.

I've played many games by now, as a different nation each time. My results are consistent. I will always lose a fair fight, and at 2 to 1 can expect enough losses to get a Pyrrhic victory at best.
 

GC13

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And I've written down a lot more die rolls than you have. The dice are fair. If you can't even get a clear-cut win in a two to one fight, I can't even begin to imagine what your problem is, because it's far from my experience.
 

delra

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Planning, preparation, good tactics, strategy. These are the hallmarks of this type of game.

And you have all those things in Vicky2 already. But in the end: All plans are great only until the first shots are fired. There must be chaos to war, some parts must be out of your control and unpredictable, as they are in the real world.

I will always lose a fair fight

Let's discuss in the bug section, with savegames?
 

anomanderus

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What army composition are you and they using? Artillery is completely sick, and it's a massive force multiplier. If you had a save for me I could look at it and tell you with more precision what was going on.

I have military supplies at full and I have artillery at about equal to my infantry in all my armies. I use the mobilized infantry and the artillery is standing military forces. Far fewer cavalry. Even having more soldiers and 20/20 tech to Austria's 19/20 and better generals and better army composition I keep having the same problem when attacking or defending. I end up losing 15k when they lose maybe 25k defending and 50k to their 30k when attacking. The entire thing seems nonsensical and all the natural advantages that I have seem to be getting nullified for no reason. I keep getting the crossing demodifier in my own country because all of those little streams are counted as rivers now. What seems to have been added to make defending easier only benefits nations like Austria and France and Russia who have the tides of soldiers to commit to battle. Playing tactically does nothing when my own terrain is working against me and when the Austrians refuse to fight me in the field 90% of the time unless I engage them first making wars unwinnable.

I also had similar problems fighting Italy which was using armies comprised entirely of infantry- I would lose horrendous numbers of soldiers despite Italy being six techs behind, the attacker and having crappy army composition. I have no idea what is happening except that apparently quantity trumps quality and mindlessly throwing your soldiers at the enemy makes more sense than making surgical strikes against small forces.
 

GAGA Extrem

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Maybe it is the dig-in modifier? Are you attacking without engineers?

In the early game quantity can indeed be a decent tactic - ART combat value is low, frontage is large and your Hussars can flank up to 4 squares away, rolling up the enemy from the flanks. At tier IV, however, an army with 50% INF + 50% ART + some HUS/ENG and a decent commander should be able to stand against the enemy. Combat rolls will be important, an early 0-9 can really mess up your day, but apart from that losses shouldn't be too terrible.

If you upload a save game I'll have a look at it.
 

Tikinaattori

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Also gas attack / defense capability makes huge difference in the late game. You can actually take 10000 vs 1000 casualties per round in an even big fight when enemy can defend gas attacks and you can't. And that's just a random invention you get when you are waging war against opponents that can use gas attack, and only has 5% change of triggering. In my last game I had to occupy Italy for almost 2 years until that triggered, but for some reason AI seems to get it really fast. Maybe just pure luck...
 

unmerged(734083)

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How do people manage to fully fund their army's supplies for a reasonable amount of time? Do you just not build up to your possible brigade limit and supply fewer brigades? Or just save up loads of cash and try and win before your pot runs out?
 

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For a great power past 1860 it's not a problem as you usually have a large cash reserve and/or can afford it with all your income. For a smaller nation, you either need to save up or go into debt if you build a large military and go to war
 

Zsrai

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I keep getting the crossing demodifier in my own country because all of those little streams are counted as rivers now. What seems to have been added to make defending easier only benefits nations like Austria and France and Russia who have the tides of soldiers to commit to battle. Playing tactically does nothing when my own terrain is working against me and when the Austrians refuse to fight me in the field 90% of the time unless I engage them first making wars unwinnable.

Ummm, stop attacking over rivers and let them attack YOU over rivers. If they don't attack you over rivers... Then you win by default? I don't see how this is such a crippling penalty when the Austrian armies keep avoiding you. There is almost no time when your own terrain should ever work against you, at least to that large of a degree.
 

Chamboozer

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I keep getting the crossing demodifier in my own country because all of those little streams are counted as rivers now. What seems to have been added to make defending easier only benefits nations like Austria and France and Russia who have the tides of soldiers to commit to battle. Playing tactically does nothing when my own terrain is working against me and when the Austrians refuse to fight me in the field 90% of the time unless I engage them first making wars unwinnable.

This has been a problem in all paradox games, unfortuantely. Terrain benefits the country with the larger army, not the smaller one as it should.

Ummm, stop attacking over rivers and let them attack YOU over rivers. If they don't attack you over rivers... Then you win by default? I don't see how this is such a crippling penalty when the Austrian armies keep avoiding you. There is almost no time when your own terrain should ever work against you, at least to that large of a degree.

Except, when playing as a small country he can't be everywhere at once. Is he supposed to defend every province simultaneously and split up his army into uselessly small units? If not, then the enemies will walk onto undefended provinces and get the defensive modifier every time. This system makes small countries almost always have the defensive modifiers working against them when they're defending their own country. Take an example like Switzerland. If they have one stack and the enemy has two, as soon as the Swiss army engages the first stack, the second one will walk past it and start sieging a Swiss province. From that point forward, every battle Switzerland fights will give the mountainous defensive bonus to the enemy, even though it is the Swiss who are defending themselves.

IMO you should not be able to get a defensive bonus from terrain unless you control the province you're defending.
 
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Beagá

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How do people manage to fully fund their army's supplies for a reasonable amount of time? Do you just not build up to your possible brigade limit and supply fewer brigades? Or just save up loads of cash and try and win before your pot runs out?

Actually the key is getting a decent war industry ASAP, which can be tough even for a major country. Without artilery factories for example the stockpile cost for keeping big artillery armies is VERY prohibitive. Succesful industry is a part of a succesful (and cheap) military.
 

unmerged(734083)

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Yeah that's what I've been trying to do. Problem is, a lot of those factories seem to be pretty unprofitable during peacetime, meaning I have to subsidize them if possible, or let them close and re-open them during war time, which is a little pricey.