How does the espionage system work?

[Mr_B0narpte]

And what's a cost effective approach to it?

Certainly having even just 1 spy can reveal so much, sometimes all the tech teams & even percentage of progress of research can be seen for foreign nations.

Which means it's all the more important to kill all spies in your lands so no enemy can see anything!

If you pour all the potential $ allowed into espionage, does any of it get wasted?

How do you calculate how much is needed to perform, say weekly missions?

What's a good way to figure out how much is a reasonable amount to spend on removing spies in your territory?

 

[Pang Bingxun]

How do you calculate how much is needed to perform, say weekly missions?

The costs for missions are calculated seperately, they are not part of your espionage budget. If donnot have the money it takes for a coup, than no coup will be attempted. The cost for missions are taken from you money pool. The daily espionage budget is only for maintaining and increasing the amount of spies you have in a nation.

If you pour all the potential $ allowed into espionage, does any of it get wasted?

If you spent more than say 15 to 25 $ per day on one nation, than spending even more will have little but more than no impact on the amount of spies you will have in that nation.

 

[Commander666]

What's a good way to figure out how much is a reasonable amount to spend on removing spies in your territory?

I've noticed that most enemy spies are removed from Germany with espionage slider at zero in the years 1936-1939... provided you have 5 or more spies of yours placed in Germany. Sometimes an attempt to kill an enemy fails... and then you lose one of yours. That would be the time to move slider a tiny bit to get back the lost spy.

As regards after war starts, I generally keep a minimum of $4.70/day to target one country at a time (including Germany if I only got 5 or so spies remaining). That results in slowly building up spies in target country, and usually I try for 10 - but reliable info of the prescience of any CV or BB (or none) can be obtained with far less spies. Often times, like when a new wars start, I might double that expenditure to achieve 10 spies placed much quicker.

However, if trying for expensive missions, I like +30 spies to minimize wasted costs for failed missions, and then probably run slider to near maximum. I find it very hard to get 30 spies into country unless I go to maximum. And 30 is really a minimum needed to do stuff like nuke sabotage and not be losing spies faster than can be replaced. Ideally, 35 spies to do this mission gives better efficiency.

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

IMO it is unbalanced how one spy can discover so much.

 

[Commander666]

Certainly having even just 1 spy can reveal so much, sometimes all the tech teams & even percentage of progress of research can be seen for foreign nations.

I actually never encountered that. I never see all the tech team names until at least about 4 or more spies, and still more spies needed to see all the percentages of achievement.

As regards that one spy does indeed report on all land, navy and air, those estimates are usually hugely inflated if gotten before DOWing country. As said, the only reliable thing I found 1 spy gives is if there is any presence of anything. So - if no CV - then one spy will state 0... and [probably] be correct. But if he states 1 it might be any number of CVs. Same for the other unit groups.

I have found 10 to be the number when estimates are mostly extremely accurate.

EDIT: Working draft for next post regarding Early Barbarossa I decided to investigate how close the estimate my 2 spies at the time got of what the actual SU units were. Surprisingly, they were much closer than I had anticipated, but on the research they did a total blank. If I have image space, I might post that "opened as SU" to get true comparison to my spy estimate. One thing the 2 spies were spot on was SU's three BBs. Also, they stated 4 ARM instead of the 4 LtARM which SU actually has. Still, that does seem "unbalanced" that 2 spies could discover that much as accurately as did occur in this case.

 

[Pang Bingxun]

Also, they stated 4 ARM instead of the 4 LtARM which SU actually has.

As i recall it mechanaized divisions are also included to that figure. That makes sense because all 3 of them benefit from panzer leaders.

 

[Commander666]

Well, the SU doesn't have any MECH at anytime that I ever did Barbarossa, IIRC. But you make a point if discussing German spies reporting about USA. However, I not at all sure that the same thing I was trying to point out even applies then.

The discussion was about accuracy of spy count. FIRSTLY, I would like to update after doing complete investigation. The 2 German spies for start of the 1940 Barbarossa were correct - precisely - for EVERY ship, air and land type except they under estimated the infantry (estimated 175 instead of actual 183). This incredible accuracy (all other categories the exact number was gotten) surpised me for only 2 spies (and certainly validates Mr_BOnarpte's opinion that it is unbalanced).

But then I looked further and noticed my Germany has achieved ADV Decryption whereas the SU only has IMP Encryption. I don't know if techs affect spy accuracy. All I am more or less aware of is that I never encountered this kind of accuracy with only 2 spies before - certainly not UK or USA (but then they pretty much even with my tech achievements.. so maybe that's why?). Or maybe it is because I never open as the enemy to get the true picture as I did this time because of the discussion?

So what is the point? Well, for me, regardless of what I just discovered, I would never trust what 2 spies say. So I will still try to get into enemy country same I always do. And it is a definite that there is zero info on their tech teams or progress until considerably more than 2 spies are placed. And having complete info on their technology is really what matters to me. AFAIK, that needs 5-7 spies to have full info including all the percentages. (EDIT: I only ever checked as other country when I had placed 10 spies which is how I learned that 10 spies is nearly always "spot on for everything", but not always.) These 2 spies in SU being - basically - spot on is amazing. Maybe it is tech related; maybe I should check whenever I place only 2 spies?

 

[Pang Bingxun]

Well, the SU doesn't have any MECH at anytime that I ever did Barbarossa, IIRC.

Given the opportunity the soviet union builds a lot of mechanized divisions.

But then I looked further and noticed my Germany has achieved ADV Decryption whereas the SU only has IMP Encryption. I don't know if techs affect spy accuracy.

The techs matter a lot for espionage and army detection. I am not sure about the effect on accuracy, but my first guess is that it can be substancial. Those cases of high accuracy despite one or 2 spies only are probably from cases where there is an advantage in techs.

 

[Commander666]

Given the opportunity the soviet union builds a lot of mechanized divisions..

I guess MJF and I didn't give Soviets much opportunity then.

The techs matter a lot for espionage and army detection. I am not sure about the effect on accuracy, but my first guess is that it can be substancial. Those cases of high accuracy despite one or 2 spies only are probably from cases where there is an advantage in techs.

Yes, I agree with this. The real problem is that there seems to exist some kind of "leprosy nauseum" for the guy that reports he opened the game as the enemy to check actual unit count versus what his spies told him. But I don't know any other way to investigate this further. Perhaps it will be forgivable to do it post-mortem as I did this time (opened as SU after I had Bitter Peace to learn what my 2 spies at start of Barbarossa really had discovered). Given that techs seem to matter, it will need many inspections to get a handle on this, I imagine.