How does splitting Conquered land between Estates and the Crown work?

[grotaclas]

If conquest can lower crown land, could giving up land to vassals increase crown land share? It seems obvious but just wanna check

I have not seen any situation in which giving up land has led to a change in crownland. I just tested ceding provinces, returning cores, releasing a country in a peace deal, releasing a country as a vassal, granting a province to the vassal, and canceling the vassal in a peace deal. And none of these had any impact on the crownland.
And even if there would be an impact, I would expect the crownland to also move towards the equilibrium in that case.

BTW: as the change in crownland happens one day after you conquer the development, you can avoid it by saving the game on that day and then reloading the save. This makes the game forget that crownland should be adjusted. This doesn't work for integrating subjects though.

 

[FrogCrusher]

And even if there would be an impact, I would expect the crownland to also move towards the equilibrium in that case.

I think the point of @Battlex is that dev_new is negative in that case, so work in reverse way.
I don't know but other seem to say it's not the case.
Is this crownland adjustement triggerd by an on_actions script?

 

[Battlex]

I don't think so, because for example conquering provinces that immediately flip over to colonies end up lowering my crownland.

Theyre you're land for a day so it has to adjust, the colonial nation taking the land might use different code to vassals being granted land

 

[Battlex]

I have not seen any situation in which giving up land has led to a change in crownland. I just tested ceding provinces, returning cores, releasing a country in a peace deal, releasing a country as a vassal, granting a province to the vassal, and canceling the vassal in a peace deal. And none of these had any impact on the crownland.
And even if there would be an impact, I would expect the crownland to also move towards the equilibrium in that case.

BTW: as the change in crownland happens one day after you conquer the development, you can avoid it by saving the game on that day and then reloading the save. This makes the game forget that crownland should be adjusted. This doesn't work for integrating subjects though.

That's a shame, wonder if it'll be changed in the next patch, like states benefiting from goods produced of TC provinces

 

[lambda x.x]

Btw, I don't understand the hate for 20-30 CL. Even 10-20 is bareable if you have enough autonomy reduction (forming a new nation, empire rank, monarchy reform, etc).
When the goal is to optimize expansion, you stay in the 20-30 or 10-20 range and constantly milk resources from estates. The subject thing is a meme -- it's an increase in LD from dev, which people confuse as just flat LD. It only becomes relevant if you have really large dev subjects.

I don't play past absolutism, but in the only run I have (the Ryukyu run), I found you only need to start thinking about revoking privs/consolidating estates around 1550s. Until then, I was always hovering in the 20-30 and sometimes dipping into high 10s range. Also, keep in mind dev pushing is a great way to farm crownland -- it gives 0.2. Even without the MP afk build, you can reliably get low dev costs later on in the game through prosperity/edict/burgher/university. Also be on the look out for -dev cost events, esp the -20% on monsoons.

So tl;dr?

• Use estates, don't ignore them. If you start as a minor, there is a case for only granting MP privileges without raising their influence really early on -- your first few conquests will spike up your CL massively.
• Hovering in 20-30 is normal. Even 10-20 for certain setups. Temporarily going into the 10s is totally fine even if you don't have the autonomy reduction
  • If you're at 25 CL, sell and seize. The order is important -- you get more from selling at low CL, so it's better to sell at 25CL then seize instead of seizing and then selling at 30 CL.
  • Abuse peace deal timings! If you're at 24 CL and about to conquer a bunch of land, sell first to get it to 14, send the peace deal (hopefully it shoots up past 15), and then seize.
• Consolidating estates can begin around mid 1500s. Use dev pushing aggressively to farm crownland

 

[Battlex]

Btw, I don't understand the hate for 20-30 CL. Even 10-20 is bareable if you have enough autonomy reduction (forming a new nation, empire rank, monarchy reform, etc).
When the goal is to optimize expansion, you stay in the 20-30 or 10-20 range and constantly milk resources from estates. The subject thing is a meme -- it's an increase in LD from dev, which people confuse as just flat LD. It only becomes relevant if you have really large dev subjects.

I don't play past absolutism, but in the only run I have (the Ryukyu run), I found you only need to start thinking about revoking privs/consolidating estates around 1550s. Until then, I was always hovering in the 20-30 and sometimes dipping into high 10s range. Also, keep in mind dev pushing is a great way to farm crownland -- it gives 0.2. Even without the MP afk build, you can reliably get low dev costs later on in the game through prosperity/edict/burgher/university. Also be on the look out for -dev cost events, esp the -20% on monsoons.

So tl;dr?

• Use estates, don't ignore them. If you start as a minor, there is a case for only granting MP privileges without raising their influence really early on -- your first few conquests will spike up your CL massively.
• Hovering in 20-30 is normal. Even 10-20 for certain setups. Temporarily going into the 10s is totally fine even if you don't have the autonomy reduction
  • If you're at 25 CL, sell and seize. The order is important -- you get more from selling at low CL, so it's better to sell at 25CL then seize instead of seizing and then selling at 30 CL.
  • Abuse peace deal timings! If you're at 24 CL and about to conquer a bunch of land, sell first to get it to 14, send the peace deal (hopefully it shoots up past 15), and then seize.
• Consolidating estates can begin around mid 1500s. Use dev pushing aggressively to farm crownland

What's the difference roughly between selling crownland at low crownland already and a medium level?

 

[grotaclas]

What's the difference roughly between selling crownland at low crownland already and a medium level?

The money that you get is multiplied by the sum of the estates land share before the sale. In the age of discovery you get 2.5*yearly income*(1-crownland) ducats. For example the difference between selling at 50% crownland vs selling at 30% crownland is 20%*2.5=50% of your yearly income

 

[grotaclas]

Is this crownland adjustement triggerd by an on_actions script?

I have not seen any trigger for this in the game files. I think the whole calculation happens in eu4.exe.

 

[RMS Oceanic]

At my rate of conquest it takes me continually seizing land to get up to 75-80% Crownland by 1610, which is when you want to be there. I can't imagine sitting at 30 crownland before starting to move. Though to be fair that's because I spend 30 crownland to get the monarch points.

 

[Vulkandrache]

At my rate of conquest its impossible to get CL up to anything.
I did another testrun wth the knights and i simply did 3 Statutories, the third got revoked in 1510.
Its now 1520, ive integrated Byz, gotten past 50 forcelimit and unlocked DV from forming Jerusalem.
I havent seized land yet and its stays more or less at 32%.
Lets see how it goes up to 1600.

 

[Maxxie42]

At my rate of conquest its impossible to get CL up to anything.

I havent seized land yet and its stays more or less at 32%.

How can you say that "it's impossible to get crowland up" if you haven't even tried seizing land ?

I think that's a very common strategy, but in case you're not aware of it, you can set up your privileges in a way that brings all three estate loyalty equilibriums above 50%. If you do that, you can then seize land every 5 years without ever having to deal with rebellions or having to rely on diets for loyalty. That way you'll be able to maintain at least 50% crownland even if you conquer extremely fast.

 

[Vulkandrache]

I have privileges set up. They are all filled out.
The loyalty gain is amazing.

Seizing every 5 years would require to be at peace every 5 years. Without any rebels anywhere at that exact month.
Thats not happening.

And if you get them privileges for 50+ then they also have influence in that range. So your Cl wants to converge to sub 30% or something.
Im losing upwards of an entire percent CL per peacedeal. Even if i could seize on cooldown the 5% every 5 years are nowhere near enough to compensate
let alone get to 50% Cl. Im not sure what you call "conquer fast" though.
As a refrence last game i was at 3400 Dev myself + vassals in 1600.

So far my initial insticts seem to come true. I want the old estates back. This CL minigame is ass.

 

[Maxxie42]

Seizing every 5 years would require to be at peace every 5 years. Without any rebels anywhere at that exact month.
Thats not happening.

I mean, many people are making it happen already, finding one day's peace every five years isn't exactly a tall order. As for rebels, have you considered picking Humanist ? Times when you have rebels in your country should be the exception, not the norm.

You keep insisting that the reason why things aren't working out in your game is because of how fast you expand, rather than because of your strategic choices in dealing with estates. But many people on this forum are making it work ; do you truly believe that you are that much better at conquest than everybody else ? (I don't mean to sound disparaging, I don't doubt that you're very good, I'm simply saying there are plenty of talented players in this forum.)

I would also point out that even if becoming as large as possible is the goal, what you conquer before absolutism isn't all that relevant. Rather, that time should be spent setting your country up in a way that maximizes your conquering efficiency post absolutism. If your early game expansion is preventing you from setting up your estates and crownland for the later game, then you're doing it wrong.

So far my initial insticts seem to come true. I want the old estates back. This CL minigame is ass.

I think what you're really looking for isn't ideas on how best to approach this mechanic, but rather confirmation for your pre-established judgment. It's hard to have a constructive debate on that basis.

 

[Vulkandrache]

I think what you're really looking for isn't ideas on how best to approach this mechanic, but rather confirmation for your pre-established judgment

Thats possible.
But im not looking for the best way to use the mechanic.
Im looking for input so i can find the best way to make it fit my playstyle.
This mechanic is simply less fun than what it used to be and if it turns out that sitting on your hands until 1600 is the best way to use it
then i will go back to 1.25 or just drop the game entirely as ive been doing for the last 3 years.

Aside form that it suffers from the typical Paradox syndrome. Just like the new mercs.
QoL is nowhere to be found. Why do i have to go to the forum to find out how CL from conquest works?
Why does a peacedeal not tell me how CL will change so i can decide wether to sell before or after?

I would also point out that even if becoming as large as possible is the goal, what you conquer before absolutism isn't all that relevant. Rather, that time should be spent setting your country up in a way that maximizes your conquering efficiency post absolutism. If your early game expansion is preventing you from setting up your estates and crownland for the later game, then you're doing it wrong.

That is all nice and good but what am i going to do from 1500 to 1600? Sit on speed 5 and dev? Wait for seize cooldown?
The second age is the most interesting for agressively expanding. You are large enough to fight multiple wars but small enough so that you still have to be careful.
And you have the WSCost and Prestige age abilities.

I do not understand what this mechanic is supposed to accomplish. Make people declare less wars? Slow down the game?

I also cant imagine that the CL minigame is what people thought of when asking for internal management mechanics.

Times when you have rebels in your country should be the exception, not the norm.

There are always rebels somewhere.
Especialy nowadays with decreasing autonomy being the go-to because of reform progress.
Atleast if you want to finish the tree before the game is over.
Only once you are large enough that a single peacedeal does not move the LA average much does that change.
And no. I used to pick Humanist. But i dont have ideaslots free for something that does nothing in the long run.

 

[Battlex]

Thats possible.
But im not looking for the best way to use the mechanic.
Im looking for input so i can find the best way to make it fit my playstyle.
This mechanic is simply less fun than what it used to be and if it turns out that sitting on your hands until 1600 is the best way to use it
then i will go back to 1.25 or just drop the game entirely as ive been doing for the last 3 years.

Aside form that it suffers from the typical Paradox syndrome. Just like the new mercs.
QoL is nowhere to be found. Why do i have to go to the forum to find out how CL from conquest works?
Why does a peacedeal not tell me how CL will change so i can decide wether to sell before or after?


That is all nice and good but what am i going to do from 1500 to 1600? Sit on speed 5 and dev? Wait for seize cooldown?
The second age is the most interesting for agressively expanding. You are large enough to fight multiple wars but small enough so that you still have to be careful.
And you have the WSCost and Prestige age abilities.

I do not understand what this mechanic is supposed to accomplish. Make people declare less wars? Slow down the game?

I also cant imagine that the CL minigame is what people thought of when asking for internal management mechanics.


There are always rebels somewhere.
Especialy nowadays with decreasing autonomy being the go-to because of reform progress.
Atleast if you want to finish the tree before the game is over.
Only once you are large enough that a single peacedeal does not move the LA average much does that change.
And no. I used to pick Humanist. But i dont have ideaslots free for something that does nothing in the long run.

Why don't you just have armies on top of rebel provinces the month before they spawn, or provoking rebellion? Not sure I'd agree with gov reforms forcing you to decrease autonomy whenever you can

 

[Vulkandrache]

the month before they spawn

Depending on your luck doing that can keep an army unuseable for months.
And you have to pay for it the entire time.

provoking rebellion

DLC feature. And even then. Wiki says it can only be done while at peace. For some reason.
Much easier and faster to kill the rebels while the army is moving past to the next DoW target.

gov reforms forcing you

I would like to access the "great holy war cb" before the game is over.
And its also nice getting to tier 6 well before 1600 so you can have another 15% WSC from the militarists.

 

[RMS Oceanic]

I occasionally lower autonomy early on for economic boost, but beyond that I rarely have trouble completing the Government reforms by 1610. The -0.05 Autonomy Reform does a lot of work in this field. As do courthouses later on.

 

[RMS Oceanic]

I've committed a little necromancy in this thread to report I've Added my summary of what was discussed here to the wiki, along with my own takeaways for strategy. If you want to review it and make sure I've not missed anything, feel free!

 

[grotaclas]

I've committed a little necromancy in this thread to report I've Added my summary of what was discussed here to the wiki, along with my own takeaways for strategy. If you want to review it and make sure I've not missed anything, feel free!

I had a quick look and it looks good so far. But I noticed that you tagged the section as version 1.31. Did you verify that the formula still works the same in 1.31?

 

[Maxxie42]

And since we're talking about 1.31 estates, I read on another thread someone say that estate loyalty changes weirdly after loading a saved game. Is there any confirmation on such a bug ?