How does agnatic succession treat daughters with sons?

[Mindel]

Say I have a son A, a daughter B, and a son C in that order. The daughter B has a son X.

If I have agnatic primogeniture, I assume the line starts with A then B. Does X come third? Or he is completely disqualified because he went through a daughter?

How about agnatic elective? Can I nominate X as my heir, or is he disqualified by going through a daughter?

 

[Silesian Burd]

1st: Son A
2nd: Son C
3rd: Your Father
4th: Your Brother(s)
5th: Your Grandfather(s)
6th: Your Uncle(s)
7th: Your Cousin(s)
8th: Seniority
9th: Open Elective

I'm pretty sure this is how it works.

 

[Lycrist Katkiller]

I am fairly certain your grandchild would inherit at some point

Assuming that you have no other dynasty members, yes, your Grandson X is third in line (but might not be displayed).
However if you have any dynasty members who are not born within a matrilinear marriage they would come before him (which is pretty stupid I think, but whatever)

 

[Naughtius Maximus]

Say I have a son A, a daughter B, and a son C in that order. The daughter B has a son X.

If I have agnatic primogeniture, I assume the line starts with A then B. Does X come third? Or he is completely disqualified because he went through a daughter?

How about agnatic elective? Can I nominate X as my heir, or is he disqualified by going through a daughter?

Two sons only. Daughter and grandson are ignored.

In Agnatic elective however you can still nominate your grandson. Well, after you die and then your daughter dies. This won't be because he was related to you, but because he now has claims for the title in question. Elective allows election of anyone valid (no women in agnatic for example) with a claim on the title.

 

[DPS]

Note that you don't want grandson X as your heir under most circumstances, since he won't be of your dynasty, so if he inherits, it's game over---the exceptions are if he was the result of a matrilineal marriage; or if your daughter belongs to a religion that allows females to have male consorts, and the grandson's father was a consort.

 

[Rubidium]

Agnatic is explicitly limited to males, and inheritance-based succession (Gavelkind/Primo/Ultimo) only pass through males. So your daughters' kids would be ignored, unlike in other gender laws. That's its main selling point, as male-line descendants will almost always be of your dynasty.

Daughters will still inherit claims that can be passed on to their sons, but those sons will need to press said claims in war (with all the standard limitations on weak claims).

As noted, things like Seniority/Elective/Tanistry work differently.

 

[Lycrist Katkiller]

Agnatic is explicitly limited to males, and inheritance-based succession (Gavelkind/Primo/Ultimo) only pass through males. So your daughters' kids would be ignored, unlike in other gender laws. That's its main selling point, as male-line descendants will almost always be of your dynasty.

Daughters will still inherit claims that can be passed on to their sons, but those sons will need to press said claims in war (with all the standard limitations on weak claims).

As noted, things like Seniority/Elective/Tanistry work differently.

that is not entirly true. If your daughter has a son he still would inherit the title. However he would probably come after all other male dynasty members.

 

[Chunakun]

There is a certain bug with agnatic gavelkind. If youu have no sons and no brothers or agnatic nephews it is possible the sons of one of your sisters will inherit. I have seen it in the old god start where the Reginars inherit Italy, Burgundy and Lotharingia from their Karling uncles.

 

[DPS]

There is a certain bug with agnatic gavelkind. If youu have no sons and no brothers or agnatic nephews it is possible the sons of one of your sisters will inherit. I have seen it in the old god start where the Reginars inherit Italy, Burgundy and Lotharingia from their Karling uncles.

Your mother can inherit, too. I've seen Charlemagne's mother end up inheriting the HRE. Actually, it can be even worse than that--I've also seen Karolman's wife inherit it, or some random woman Charlemagne happened to marry after divorcing the Lombard wife, or once, Pepin the Bastard's mom.

That was all before HF, which introduced the bug that the HRE has Imperial Elective even if formed before 900 (it's not supposed to be locked to Imperial Elective in the 769 start--does anyone know if that bug was fixed in the latest patch?).

 

[Karlington]

That was all before HF, which introduced the bug that the HRE has Imperial Elective even if formed before 900 (it's not supposed to be locked to Imperial Elective in the 769 start--does anyone know if that bug was fixed in the latest patch?).

According to what is it not supposed to be princely elective in the early start?

Regardless of start date you can change to other succession forms if you have max centralization and council power.

 

[DPS]

I read it somewhere, but I can't remember where. Hmm. Maybe I'm mistaken. And it's Princely Elective for the HRE, not Imperial Elective.

 

[Lycrist Katkiller]

In case it's still not clear:

My father died having two sons and a daughter.
Succession law is agnatic Gavelkind.
My brother inherited the main title but died childless so I took over his titles and kept mine.

I don't have children (yet), however my sister, who can not inherit titles because of the agnatic succesion has a son who is my current heir.
However: He is my only male dynasty member - I am fairly certain that he would inherit the title as well if he wasn't an offspring in a matrilinear marriage (next one in line of succesion would be the Caliph).
If I had ANY male dynasty member not offspring in a matrilinear marriage they would probably inherit the titles before my nephew (which is rather weird in my opinion but saves you from title loss / game over if you would not marry matrilinear)

 

[Lycrist Katkiller]

but wait, there is more

I am still the same character, but have two sons and one daughter now (sound familiar, right? )

My daughter has one son herself.
Now both my sons had some "accidents" but as you can see, my Nephew (the same guy as before) is now my heir instead of my grandson (which to makes still only limited sense)

 

[Duskwave]

I think it works according to Open rules when there are no valid agnatic heirs, so the nephew comes before the grandson because he presumably has more Prestige (or they have the same, and it's some other tiebreaker like age). I could be wrong, but if you do something to give the grandson more, it should make him the heir instead.

Edit: the wiki says Primogeniture comes before Open in the fallback, wonder if that means it tries cognatic primo matches first... well, bumping prestige should tell you whether that's the case or not https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/Succession#Fallbacks_for_feudal_rulers_with_no_heir

 

[Lycrist Katkiller]

I think it works according to Open rules when there are no valid agnatic heirs, so the nephew comes before the grandson because he presumably has more Prestige (or they have the same, and it's some other tiebreaker like age). I could be wrong, but if you do something to give the grandson more, it should make him the heir instead.

Has nothing to do with prestige, fairly certain its also not seniority

 

[Naughtius Maximus]

Open is based off either amount of holdings the strongest son (or grandson) holds.

 

[Duskwave]

Open is based off either amount of holdings the strongest son (or grandson) holds.

Sorry, I should have said "Open Elective", not "Open", I forget the distinction sometimes (I don't use Open succession much).

 

[Karlington]

Sorry, I should have said "Open Elective", not "Open", I forget the distinction sometimes (I don't use Open succession much).

Here's what it says about it on the Wiki:

"Fallback for independent feudal rulers with no heir and no feudal vassals."
"The courtier with the highest sum of (age + prestige) inherits. To be eligible, a courtier must be an adult male, same religion, not heir to any other titles, and not imprisoned."

 

[Duskwave]

Here's what it says about it on the Wiki:

"Fallback for independent feudal rulers with no heir and no feudal vassals."
"The courtier with the highest sum of (age + prestige) inherits. To be eligible, a courtier must be an adult male, same religion, not heir to any other titles, and not imprisoned."

Yeah, I linked that article up a couple posts, I was just sloppy in referring to it earlier