How do you Win?

[Bridger15]

HOI has always been the most straightforward of the Paradox Grand Strategy games. EU, CK, and even Vic all have much longer timelines and are mostly historical sandboxes. There are no discrete victory conditions in those games AFAIK (though I've never played Vic II).

However, HOI is game about one long war, and wars have victors. In many games it will be clear who won, but how is the margin of victory determined in HOI4? We know that there are victory cities (and that they affect supply, among other things) but are there also those weird victory points to be gained by acomplishing certain goals as in HOI3?

Will we see a leaderboard similar to the one in EU4?

Or will the game be a series of "achievement" chases (which isn't necessarily bad if the achievements are well designed like in EU4 and CK2).

Has there been any information on this that I have missed?

 

[Daddl]

You will get a score screen in 1948, but can continue playing after that if you want. Achievements are also in of course. I'd guess the score screen takes the victory points you hold into account, and maybe other things like industry/army/manpower as well. Victory points are like in HoI3 and determine together with the national unity when your enemy capitulates, with the difference that each region counts for some victory points now as well, while important cities count more and additionally give you supply, so they are worth fighting for and units can potenitally hold out in them. We didn't see an exact map of the distribution of victory points yet.

 

[Mannstien]

Set your own goals and try to exceed them, it's really about control at a Strategic level where all of the other majors are either defeated outright or have no more capacity to wage an effective offensive war against you. BRING THEM TO THEIR KNEE'S is how I would describe it.

 

[ELPhantomII]

It's not about winning; it's about F.U.N.

 

[1337Hospitaller]

In my opinion you win when your country's ideology (fascism, democracy, or communism) becomes dominant in the world.

 

[fredgiblet]

I usually go for somewhat historical goals. i.e. as Japan I've largely created the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere. So once I do my best to ensure that Germany wins their fight against the Soviets I'll consider it a win if I can hold my territory, which shouldn't be hard since I plan to not attack the US.

As Germany the obvious goal is to take all of Europe, attaining that and having a defeated Soviet Union to the east is a win.

 

[LordOfWar16]

As already stated above you get an score screen in 1948, which you can close tho and keep playing if you wish. Achievements will be disabled by that tho, just as with EUIV now.

The game is an sandbox game, which means you can play however you want. There are no strict goals just as in EUIV. You make up your own goals. There will of course be most likely an "technical victory" shown in the score screen if you exceed the amount of victory points of the other factions, but in the end your own goals is what count.

HoI III was very strictly railroaded and you didnt really had that much wiggle room to work with. With HoI IV that is completly different. If you wanted and work towards that goal you are even able to turn germany democratic (by civil war of course), disband the axis and join the allies against the communist threat in the east. Or you straight up found a new faction with the soviet union as the german reich. You could of course even play an pacifist germany if that is what you want. It really is up to you.

 

[Number 7]

i'd say the only difficult "win" is Japan vs USA. because in HOI3 you could completely achieve strategic goals (occupy all of the greater east asian co-prosperity sphere, all the islands, all the US islands like wake, midway pacific etc) but you have no way to actually make the US surrender. Even if you smash their entire navy and the AI has a brainfart and starts making only transport flotillas and forgetting what carriers are

typically the rest of the majors wars end in a peace treaty and HOI4 has a really cool peace treaty system

 

[LordOfWar16]

i'd say the only difficult "win" is Japan vs USA. because in HOI3 you could completely achieve strategic goals (occupy all of the greater east asian co-prosperity sphere, all the islands, all the US islands like wake, midway pacific etc) but you have no way to actually make the US surrender. Even if you smash their entire navy and the AI has a brainfart and starts making only transport flotillas and forgetting what carriers are

typically the rest of the majors wars end in a peace treaty and HOI4 has a really cool peace treaty system

you can actually offer surrender if the war isnt going very well for you. That means that you actually have an saying in the peace conference and have to agree to the demands of the opposite side. If you decline their demands the war will simply continue. If you are defeated however, they can demand whatever they want without you having any saying of course.

So basicly if you manage to sink alot of the us navy in the pacific and gain more or less total domination over the pacific you may force the USA to the peace table without occupying their mainland.

Spoiler for the end of World War Wednesday Germany vs UK:

Spoiler

Infact, that is what johan did at the end of WWW when they ended. He basicly surrendered to daniel without daniel controlling british soil and daniel puppeted the uk after johan accepted his demands.

 

[Number 7]

you can actually offer surrender if the war isnt going very well for you. That means that you actually have an saying in the peace conference and have to agree to the demands of the opposite side. If you decline their demands the war will simply continue. If you are defeated however, they can demand whatever they want without you having any saying of course.

So basicly if you manage to sink alot of the us navy in the pacific and gain more or less total domination over the pacific you may force the USA to the peace table without occupying their mainland.

Spoiler for the end of World War Wednesday Germany vs UK:

Spoiler

Infact, that is what johan did at the end of WWW when they ended. He basicly surrendered to daniel without daniel controlling british soil and daniel puppeted the uk after johan accepted his demands.

yeah, players will do that, but i dont know if the AI USA will realise they have lost all hope at the pacific and take a peace. of course, hopefully the AI USA in hoi4 actually builds a really terrifying navy and then that will be a lot harder to achieve

 

[LordOfWar16]

yeah, players will do that, but i dont know if the AI USA will realise they have lost all hope at the pacific and take a peace. of course, hopefully the AI USA in hoi4 actually builds a really terrifying navy and then that will be a lot harder to achieve

Well, atleast in EUIV they offer peace if they know they are losing same as in stellaris actually. In stellaris for example the ai offered peace once martin defeated their fleet and spaceport, but did not attack the planet yet. Since wiz was lend-leased to the hoiIV team for a periode and sent his padawan to do the job i am sure we will see similar stuff in HoI IV aswell.

 

[Bridger15]

It's not about winning; it's about F.U.N.

Are you trying to be obtuse? Of course you play for fun. Do you not understand that many people enjoy themselves when they are trying to achieve a specific goal within the context of a simulation? That is where I derrive the fun. I receive a goal, and I then try my best to live up to the challenge. Do you not ever form any goals and just wander around with no objective at all in your playthroughs of paradox titles?

My point is that in past HOI games there has been stated goals (which is not really true of other paradox titles) and I was wondering what the stated goals in this game would be.

 

[Axe99]

We haven't heard whether there'll be something like the victory conditions that were in HoI3. I think they're trying to keep the game more open and sandbox, so I'm not sure if it's the kind of thing that would best belong in the game in any event, at least in sandbox mode.

Random brainstorm - if you could make 'custom scenarios' where the scenario goals were victory conditions, and the AI was bright enough to play for them (a tad optimistic given how many moving parts HoI has, but it's a random thought, so bound to have holes in it) you could maybe get them in that way? So you could play a "Germany and Lebensraum" scenario, and you "win" if you take everything to the A-A line, or something like that?

Personally, I'm very happy keeping it fast and loose (as in we set our own goals), but PDS games have been moving closer to having explicit goals in them as well (above and beyond a score total and Steam achievements, which are obviously already that kind of thing), and that might be one way to do it.

 

[ELPhantomII]

Are you trying to be obtuse? Of course you play for fun. Do you not understand that many people enjoy themselves when they are trying to achieve a specific goal within the context of a simulation? That is where I derrive the fun. I receive a goal, and I then try my best to live up to the challenge. Do you not ever form any goals and just wander around with no objective at all in your playthroughs of paradox titles?

My point is that in past HOI games there has been stated goals (which is not really true of other paradox titles) and I was wondering what the stated goals in this game would be.

I guess my reference was too obscure.

 

[Stolen Rutters]

I guess my reference was too obscure.

My google search turned up... Spongebob. I still don't get it. You mean having fun blowing things up? If so, then cool!

edit - back to the original post, I don't know about you but victory for me will be...

Unconditional Surrender, nothing less will do!

 

[77Hawk77]

There are many ways to win in multiplayer, one of the fastest against most opponents is to apear weak, let them invade you in that place, then destroy a group of his divisions. These kinds of minor set backs often make people think they have lost the entire game, so they leave and there by actually lose, and then you've won.

You can also pretend to be much stronger than others while not being at war, then attack them after talking about how impressive your army is, this alone might make them rage quit especially if they are already at war with someone else, your actual strength is irrelevant.

You can also try and critisize some minor detail of someone elses play for a prolonged period of time that can do the trick aswell.

Altenatively you can capture the victory points/objectives which are strategic provinces until you reach the threshhold that determines you have won.
But who wants to do that?

 

[uleslaw]

By fighting hard

 

[elmalvad0]

...

And remember to call them scrubs at every opportunity.

 

[77Hawk77]

And remember to call them scrubs at every opportunity.

Some futher tricks you can do aswell:

Ask them if it wouldn't be better that they played Italy, since they'd play them historically.

Declare war on them at an ahistorical time.

Get an unhistorical ally to attack them when they don't expect it.

And yes, call them a scrub everytime a division retreats even 1 province.

 

[Oriflamme]

Are you trying to be obtuse? Of course you play for fun. Do you not understand that many people enjoy themselves when they are trying to achieve a specific goal within the context of a simulation?

You don't get the reference. XD

F - Fire that burns down the whole town
U - Uranium bombs
N - No survivors