How do you win the opening war as Venice?

[Akintude]

Or at least not lose it so horribly.

I was fooling around with various countries earlier on, just trying them out, and I fired up Venice. Everything was going well, and I was enjoying myself, before quite suddenly Dalmatia was under siege and I suddenly realized I was at war with three nations (Austria, Croatia, Hungary) and no one had seen fit to notify me

I was intrigued by this extremely difficult starting position, and did my best to stave off the Austro-Hungaro-Croat hordes, but with my starting garrison of 15,000 men (with only 5,000 cavalry) there wasn't much I could do besides rush around trying to beat up the small marauding forces while avoiding Hungary's huge 45k+ stack. I eventually managed to convince the Austrians, through looting and raiding, to give me about 100 bucks and leave me alone, but the Hungarians and Croats weren't quitting, and by this point they had successfully captured all three of my cities and when the Croatians (evidently the alliance leaders) decided to offer me peace in exchange for Dalmatia and some bux, I accepted.

Subsequent attempts were even less fruitful than this. I honestly don't see how you can possibly escape this war without making some seriously major concessions and in fact losing. Is there any way to at least force a white peace? Also, is this a historical conflict? Which one is it?

 

[Dell19]

Venice has little to gain from that war so don't bother fighting it. I cannot recall whether in Vanilla you already have control of Dalmatia? Certainly in AGCEEP Venice already controls Dalmatia and has a sizeable war score so that you can gain peace pretty quickly.

After that you should concentrate on getting Greek or Italian provinces. Getting Thrace before the Ottomans is nice.

 

[Akintude]

Venice has little to gain from that war so don't bother fighting it. I cannot recall whether in Vanilla you already have control of Dalmatia?

Oh yeah, Venice controls Dalmatia all right, but not in the way you think. At the start of this war, Venice controls Dalmatia...it's one of their national provinces. I'd like to be able to keep it if I can, but Croatia always demands it in the alliance-wide peace settlement. It would be better if I didn't have it, since I could end the war immediately, and although I still wouldn't have Dalmatia, I would be able to stop Veneto from being looted and pillaged and my army being crushed.

I don't think I have a permenant CB against the Byzantines, so I don't know how I'd get one without cores on them. What would be the best way to nab Thrace, do you think? Wait until the Byzants lose the first war with the Ottomans and cough up Morea, then invade myself and annex? Will the CoT still show up in Thrace if I (as the Venetians) capture it, or does it have to be the Ottomans?

 

[unmerged(53611)]

i know its off subject but... i love attacking venice in the ass while there dealing wid aus. hung. etc. (it somtimes works lol somtimes...)

 

[Dell19]

Oh yeah, Venice controls Dalmatia all right, but not in the way you think. At the start of this war, Venice controls Dalmatia...it's one of their national provinces. I'd like to be able to keep it if I can, but Croatia always demands it in the alliance-wide peace settlement. It would be better if I didn't have it, since I could end the war immediately, and although I still wouldn't have Dalmatia, I would be able to stop Veneto from being looted and pillaged and my army being crushed.

I don't think I have a permenant CB against the Byzantines, so I don't know how I'd get one without cores on them. What would be the best way to nab Thrace, do you think? Wait until the Byzants lose the first war with the Ottomans and cough up Morea, then invade myself and annex? Will the CoT still show up in Thrace if I (as the Venetians) capture it, or does it have to be the Ottomans?

Ah yes I remember now the starting position. You could just accept the loss of Dalmatia or try and siege around the large enemy armies. For instance try and take both Croatian provinces and force them to accept peace.

You are unlikely to have a CB on Byzantium and you wouldn't get a trade centre however annexing it would stop the Ottomans from getting their own trade centre and generally if the Ottomans don't take Thrace they die.

 

[CatKnight]

The idea here (and with your Byzantine question) is to try and outstubborn the AI. Sooner or later they'll come down on their peace offer.

I've never played Venice so can't give you hard advice. In 1.09 (not sure about 1.08), Venice province is technically an island with straits to the surrounding provinces. Put your fleet out into the Adriatic right next to it... now Hungary and Croatia can't get to your main city.

Avoidance and looting/beating on smaller stacks isn't necessarily a bad idea. Like in the other thread, if you can get a siege or two going as well that slows them down.

 

[Jomini]

You are on the right track, it is just tedious in the extreme to do. Let the AI seige down your provinces, preferably with those huge armies. You want to get an army, preferably all cav, onto the Hungarian plains that can remorselessly plague the enemy. MA in any of the Balkan Orthodox nations can prove most helpful. If the AI keeps its huge stacks on your land, great you can seige territory of theirs. If they retreat, then you need to use some amphibious troops to retake your provinces. The biggest key is to not have to fight CoT warscore. Once you get to positive warscore offer a pittance of cash, and the AI will usually accept peace.

 

[unmerged(3931)]

See my Venice AAR for some help on playing Venice (link is in my sig.). I played a version similar to 1.08 vanilla. In 1.09, Venice is easier since Veneto is an island surrounded by straits.

 

[stnylan]

As I recall (though I haven't checked) Venice starts off with a positive war score in that particular conflict. A white peace is certainly possible (worked for me in the past)

 

[unmerged(51378)]

As I recall (though I haven't checked) Venice starts off with a positive war score in that particular conflict. A white peace is certainly possible (worked for me in the past)

Isn't that in AGCEEP only?

That being said, I personally try to get peace, if they don't accept, ignore it and block Veneto's strait. The early years must be spent securing Thrace. And defeat the turk on top.

 

[stnylan]

Isn't that in AGCEEP only?

Sorry, you're right. My bad.

 

[unmerged(3931)]

In 1.09, Venice is best played as a one-province minor island that nobody can attack. So lose wars to Croatia and Byzantium to dump your provinces off on them. Byzantium is then able to hold off the Turks on their own. So Thrace does not get a CoT, which keeps Veneto the most valuable CoT in Europe.

 

[I Killed Kenny]

In 1.09, Venice is best played as a one-province minor island that nobody can attack. So lose wars to Croatia and Byzantium to dump your provinces off on them. Byzantium is then able to hold off the Turks on their own. So Thrace does not get a CoT, which keeps Veneto the most valuable CoT in Europe.

doesn't that spoil all the fun?

 

[Sitenl]

Sure it does... but this is a way to play... a unfun way.

 

[unmerged(3931)]

Well, Venice is fun regardless of how you play. I like to reduce down to one province and then maybe take another CoT or two. But in 1.09, I think I would just stay with one province for the first hundred years or more. Keep control (not ownership) of other CoTs such as Mecklemburg, Danzig, and Astrakhan. Loot like crazy and stay at war for a century. Get infra 5 and trade 5 about the time the ahead of time penalties are removed. Then go WC.

Two special abilities for Venice to be aware of are:

1) You can gain loot from provinces even though another nation's troops are present in the province. If you control a siege in a province, you get the loot. Even though you or another nation may already control the province, you get loot if you are first to arrive and stationary in the province or you have the highest ranking leader. When playing other nations, you never get the loot if there is an AI army in the same province.

2) When there is a battle, you can gain control of sieges even though you are not first to arrive in a province. You can send a tiny army into the melee of a large battle. If the battle is won while your troops are in the battle and there is not a higher ranking leader in the siege, then Venice will control the siege.

 

[Akintude]

Get infra 5 and trade 5 about the time the ahead of time penalties are removed.

Are these penalties listed anywhere?

 

[unmerged(54497)]

start the game, and right away, before it changes from january 1 to january 2, pause the game. take your starting army, and seige the neartest croatian province, they usually build some troops in this province right from the get go. Your troops will get there just before, or just as the croatian troops are being created, resulting in an easy win. You now have a positve war score, and can gain a white peace from croatia easilly, ending the war depending on what version fo the game you have.

 

[unmerged(48091)]

I saw an good Venice in a recent game as Norway. Venice has taken all of european ottoman territory and all the areas south of hungary and half of italy. Pretty impressive. Thrace is in the hands of Tuscany as well and the ottomans had sienna until venice took it. The only thing is i want to get a explorer. I guess Norway doesnt get one?

 

[Tonioz]

If you have problems playing Venice at start follow very simple thing.

Do not fight Hungary or other countries. At all versions (1.05, 1.07, 1.08, 1.09) at October 1419-beginning 1420 your offer to WP will be accepted, if War score is 0. Just move troops out and send WP offer at the end of year, before Hungary can finish sieging.