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I voted for good. It's a great game but there's some issues that need to be solved. 1. easier management of Revolt Risk in my opinion. 2. More and better made events for certain countries ex:Italy 3. Somehow, make so Austria acts how they're supposed to act. In every game I've played Austria gets the highest industrial rating and has the max fortress in every province.
1. Can you elaborate?
2. As DK states, it cannot be officially helped.
However, we have VIP!
Originally posted by TheFlemishDuck
Then again ,in battlefield 1942 one can sink a destroyer with a garand rifle.In civ even a tribal warior might achieve it.I figure no game is withought exploit's ,and surely not shortly after release ,and some even have major exploit's two years after it's release.
In this sense ,hail paradox that atleast this game's exploit's are acceptable after enough patches to not tottaly waist the pleasure of an MP game.
AWW MAN I remember when my brother played of Civ and he got waaay advanced of everybody else and had mechanized infantry before everybody else invented mapmaking. So one day he was sailing his battleship along the coast of another continent, and he comes upon a settler, and he decides to kill it and the settler won and destroyed his battleship!!!
what a crock!!!
Actually Civ III is a cracking game now - but its taken two PAID for expansion packs for a total of £70 / $110 to fix it. Or the equivalent of two Paradox games.
And the AI still cheats outrageously on levels above regent. But its the next game after Vicky and EU2 that I play each week
And the AI still cheats outrageously on levels above regent. But its the next game after Vicky and EU2 that I play each week
Voted: average.
Why? I think Paradox made a good work. After installing 1.01 the game is very stable (no CTDs in my first game, I'm playing GC Modena, now in 1890), the economic and historical work beyond the game is relevant, but:
- no wars (I mean I've seen only Russia vs OE, England and Sweden, England vs China, USA vs CSA. No other). I didn't love EU2 continous state of war but this is exactly the opposite...
- no events, excluding the 8 great powers. Events like Italian and German unification, Austro-Prussian and French-Prussian wars haven't happened, similarly Napoleon III French Empire, 1848 revolts and so on
- AI frozen for a lot of countries: Sardinia/Piedmont, France, Spain, Greece have not make nothing for 50 years
- Colonisation: I've not seen USA colonisating Africa as I've read elsewhere on the forum, but France and Britain take all. No other powers have taken their place in the sun (Germany, Belgium, Portugal, Spain in particular). When Germany and Italy form, nothing in Africa is still free for them.
- Armies: too much manpower for great powers, too much troops.
I repeat, the work is good but some rebalancing is needed.
Why? I think Paradox made a good work. After installing 1.01 the game is very stable (no CTDs in my first game, I'm playing GC Modena, now in 1890), the economic and historical work beyond the game is relevant, but:
- no wars (I mean I've seen only Russia vs OE, England and Sweden, England vs China, USA vs CSA. No other). I didn't love EU2 continous state of war but this is exactly the opposite...
- no events, excluding the 8 great powers. Events like Italian and German unification, Austro-Prussian and French-Prussian wars haven't happened, similarly Napoleon III French Empire, 1848 revolts and so on
- AI frozen for a lot of countries: Sardinia/Piedmont, France, Spain, Greece have not make nothing for 50 years
- Colonisation: I've not seen USA colonisating Africa as I've read elsewhere on the forum, but France and Britain take all. No other powers have taken their place in the sun (Germany, Belgium, Portugal, Spain in particular). When Germany and Italy form, nothing in Africa is still free for them.
- Armies: too much manpower for great powers, too much troops.
I repeat, the work is good but some rebalancing is needed.
I am sorry to say that I voted "bad". Really sorry to say. Don't get me wrong, I think Paradox are an excellent brand that with EU2 produced one of my all-time favourite games. But Victoria is a game too far. Unfortunately, I think that a lot of people who do not have the time to invest in lieu of a tutorial or better manual, and do not have the time to browse these messageboards will think so as well. Like myself, they may well be wary of buying another Paradox game in future.
I must therefore counsel Paradox against getting carried away by the 250 votes of 'excellent'... indeed I take my hat off to those of you that persisted with the game to really learn it. I would guess that those 250 are core Paradox fans that love the complexity and micromanagement of it all. I don't think this represents the market, and I think that this game has even gone beyond what the average strategy gamer is prepared to accept.
There must come a point where you draw the line under what gets into the game. Just because the processing power of modern PCs can handle it doesn't mean it should be modelled, and modelling everything doesn't make a better game. What gameplay there is has been buried under the massive amount of variables that must be micromanaged in order to be successful. I don't doubt it could be rewarding, but only outside the ability of the average gameplayer to invest the time and patience to make it so.
May I say that I've been computer gaming since colossal cave on a mainframe (only printed paper as output!), I have played most SSI and SSG games, and completed several grand campaigns of EU2. One of my favourite games was a superb SSI game called USAAF that covered the aerial bombing campaign over Germany on a day to day basis. I cannot dare imagine how much time I spent on that game, but the gameplay was great on the old C-64. A couple of years ago a product called Twelve o Clock High was released by Talonsoft that was to all intents and purposes a remake. Instead of having bomb groups to manage, it utilised modern PC power to model individual aircraft! The game was totally unplayable. To a lesser extent, this over-complexity has happened with Victoria. There is just too much going on!
Sure it would be great if the AI could micromanage as well as a human can, but we all know that isn't going to happen. It isn't going to replace that clerk that just immigrated to the USA, and (when a few other POPs have disappeared from the factories) suddenly you're in trade deficit (again). Similarly with trade. Of course the AI can do it, but to get it exactly right you have to micromanage. And what about realism? Is dividing the workforce into POPs realistic? What about the important groups that aren't even modelled like Civil Servants? Just by making things more complicated doesn't make them realistic... its just another form of abstraction. In fact, given the period concerned, perhaps the separation into upper, middle and working classes would have been just as realistic. What about the world market when you don't know who you're selling to... financing your enemy's war effort, potentially against you! Also on trade, I don't see how the only budget option for a nation in the 1820s was to set up a luxury furniture or luxury clothing manufacturing industry for exports! I also don't think it realistic that all of the colonies seem to be snapped up very quickly. Some of this can be handled by the patches, but most of the inbuilt complexity will still be there.
And you know what? It isn't *fun*. I saw somewhere that Paradox were very keen on making there products fun... well I'm sorry to say (again), this is not. It's just too frustrating. I think Paradox may alienate a lot of the (already small) market with this game, and they will suffer on their next release. For me, I'm going back to EU2.
(Congratulations if you managed to read all of this very long post!)
I must therefore counsel Paradox against getting carried away by the 250 votes of 'excellent'... indeed I take my hat off to those of you that persisted with the game to really learn it. I would guess that those 250 are core Paradox fans that love the complexity and micromanagement of it all. I don't think this represents the market, and I think that this game has even gone beyond what the average strategy gamer is prepared to accept.
There must come a point where you draw the line under what gets into the game. Just because the processing power of modern PCs can handle it doesn't mean it should be modelled, and modelling everything doesn't make a better game. What gameplay there is has been buried under the massive amount of variables that must be micromanaged in order to be successful. I don't doubt it could be rewarding, but only outside the ability of the average gameplayer to invest the time and patience to make it so.
May I say that I've been computer gaming since colossal cave on a mainframe (only printed paper as output!), I have played most SSI and SSG games, and completed several grand campaigns of EU2. One of my favourite games was a superb SSI game called USAAF that covered the aerial bombing campaign over Germany on a day to day basis. I cannot dare imagine how much time I spent on that game, but the gameplay was great on the old C-64. A couple of years ago a product called Twelve o Clock High was released by Talonsoft that was to all intents and purposes a remake. Instead of having bomb groups to manage, it utilised modern PC power to model individual aircraft! The game was totally unplayable. To a lesser extent, this over-complexity has happened with Victoria. There is just too much going on!
Sure it would be great if the AI could micromanage as well as a human can, but we all know that isn't going to happen. It isn't going to replace that clerk that just immigrated to the USA, and (when a few other POPs have disappeared from the factories) suddenly you're in trade deficit (again). Similarly with trade. Of course the AI can do it, but to get it exactly right you have to micromanage. And what about realism? Is dividing the workforce into POPs realistic? What about the important groups that aren't even modelled like Civil Servants? Just by making things more complicated doesn't make them realistic... its just another form of abstraction. In fact, given the period concerned, perhaps the separation into upper, middle and working classes would have been just as realistic. What about the world market when you don't know who you're selling to... financing your enemy's war effort, potentially against you! Also on trade, I don't see how the only budget option for a nation in the 1820s was to set up a luxury furniture or luxury clothing manufacturing industry for exports! I also don't think it realistic that all of the colonies seem to be snapped up very quickly. Some of this can be handled by the patches, but most of the inbuilt complexity will still be there.
And you know what? It isn't *fun*. I saw somewhere that Paradox were very keen on making there products fun... well I'm sorry to say (again), this is not. It's just too frustrating. I think Paradox may alienate a lot of the (already small) market with this game, and they will suffer on their next release. For me, I'm going back to EU2.
(Congratulations if you managed to read all of this very long post!)
Will play a bit more before rating the game.
Right now it would be average, or below.
Well, actually not too much for the game itself, I'm grasping the economic ascpects pretty well now. But I'm stll struggeling on the hows and whats of POP management.
What is frustrating me the most is the lack of infos. The game is very complex, more than what I faced with EU1 and 2, but I can't seem to find anything, or just some vague comments.
I would like to see more numbers printed on various machanisms, especially those that affect pops.
Also I'm a bit frustrated in the face of tech research. I'm still unclear what tech will give me the possibility to build this or that factory. And reading the infos related to the tech does not help that much, again, just vagues hints.
I'll search the bord for more infos, but I really don't like this Paradox doctrine of 'find the info on the forum'. Especially with no search function.
I like a good manual, preferably with an index.
Right now it would be average, or below.
Well, actually not too much for the game itself, I'm grasping the economic ascpects pretty well now. But I'm stll struggeling on the hows and whats of POP management.
What is frustrating me the most is the lack of infos. The game is very complex, more than what I faced with EU1 and 2, but I can't seem to find anything, or just some vague comments.
I would like to see more numbers printed on various machanisms, especially those that affect pops.
Also I'm a bit frustrated in the face of tech research. I'm still unclear what tech will give me the possibility to build this or that factory. And reading the infos related to the tech does not help that much, again, just vagues hints.
I'll search the bord for more infos, but I really don't like this Paradox doctrine of 'find the info on the forum'. Especially with no search function.
I like a good manual, preferably with an index.
Cant wait to use my navy
Its so fun as long as you dont own the ship
Make the long version availible on the forum
I love and hate this game.
I've played some 5 games of Victoria, with Sweden, Portugal and Denmark. (v1.01)
Victoria is the most promising of all Paradox games, but it's crippled by some oddities and bugs:
- The way migration works in it
- In all my games, USA colonized half of Africa, and almost all the islands in the Pacific
- 'Let computer handle the trade' aka 'Let computer spend all your money'
- The AI is just plain stupid. (Especially when trading. I tried giving Britain all my money, 5 of my top techs and 5 of my provinces for one single island in the Pacific... 0% chance.)
There's a lot of good in this game. With some tweaking and a working migration system it would be soo good.
I've played some 5 games of Victoria, with Sweden, Portugal and Denmark. (v1.01)
Victoria is the most promising of all Paradox games, but it's crippled by some oddities and bugs:
- The way migration works in it
- In all my games, USA colonized half of Africa, and almost all the islands in the Pacific
- 'Let computer handle the trade' aka 'Let computer spend all your money'
- The AI is just plain stupid. (Especially when trading. I tried giving Britain all my money, 5 of my top techs and 5 of my provinces for one single island in the Pacific... 0% chance.)
There's a lot of good in this game. With some tweaking and a working migration system it would be soo good.
I've become thoroughly addicted to the game--to the extent that my wife is threatening to take our baby girl and go back home to her mother's!
Seriously, it was actually a present to me from my beloved--a combination birthday and get well/cheer up gift--I've been suffering from kidney problems recently and have been feeling rather down, so your game has been the perfect "pick me up".
While I do love the game, as always, there are a few minor and not so minor nitpicks:
1) It really would be helpful to have a pop up notification when a factory is completed--I understand that you're working on that though, so thanks in advance...
2) I think there's a bug in that I wanted to take some Swedish settlements in the Pacific through a colonial war, but the game wouldn't let me declare a colonial war on the Swedes and I really didn't want to declare a general war against them.
3) Partisans are a pain in the butt. I like their inclusion, but I think that their effect is a bit overstated--they really should be more a nuisance than anything else--although they should definitely be able to mess up the day of the player who fails to guard his supply lines properly.
4) I like the game within a game as regards production and industrialization, but I do think that it is a bit too easy to build up an industrial powerhouse that can just steamroller everyone else--once you establish your industrial base and get the money rolling in, then there really isn't anything to stop you from maxing out on education, crime fighting, and defense/military. I like the idea of making players choose "guns or butter"--fighting a major war in this period, especially for a protracted time, should entail some very real economic/domestic sacrifices. Hopefully this will be addressed in a future patch.
5) I also enjoy the game within a game as regards managing your populations. Again though, I think there are some minor glitches as regards immigration etc. I believe you said that those issues are also being addressed in a later patch, so I'll just keep on playing and look forward to the patch.
Again, thanks to you, the rest of the development team at Paradox for putting out this fine game and for your most excellent support--I came on board with EU and haven't regretted a single Paradox purchase since; thanks to Strategy First for releasing it in the US; and thanks to the beta testers for working through the bugs in refining this game.
I look forward to many hours of game play and many dirty looks from the Missus!
Seriously, it was actually a present to me from my beloved--a combination birthday and get well/cheer up gift--I've been suffering from kidney problems recently and have been feeling rather down, so your game has been the perfect "pick me up".
While I do love the game, as always, there are a few minor and not so minor nitpicks:
1) It really would be helpful to have a pop up notification when a factory is completed--I understand that you're working on that though, so thanks in advance...
2) I think there's a bug in that I wanted to take some Swedish settlements in the Pacific through a colonial war, but the game wouldn't let me declare a colonial war on the Swedes and I really didn't want to declare a general war against them.
3) Partisans are a pain in the butt. I like their inclusion, but I think that their effect is a bit overstated--they really should be more a nuisance than anything else--although they should definitely be able to mess up the day of the player who fails to guard his supply lines properly.
4) I like the game within a game as regards production and industrialization, but I do think that it is a bit too easy to build up an industrial powerhouse that can just steamroller everyone else--once you establish your industrial base and get the money rolling in, then there really isn't anything to stop you from maxing out on education, crime fighting, and defense/military. I like the idea of making players choose "guns or butter"--fighting a major war in this period, especially for a protracted time, should entail some very real economic/domestic sacrifices. Hopefully this will be addressed in a future patch.
5) I also enjoy the game within a game as regards managing your populations. Again though, I think there are some minor glitches as regards immigration etc. I believe you said that those issues are also being addressed in a later patch, so I'll just keep on playing and look forward to the patch.
Again, thanks to you, the rest of the development team at Paradox for putting out this fine game and for your most excellent support--I came on board with EU and haven't regretted a single Paradox purchase since; thanks to Strategy First for releasing it in the US; and thanks to the beta testers for working through the bugs in refining this game.
I look forward to many hours of game play and many dirty looks from the Missus!
Game has great potential but the lack of supporting documentation is a big problem. Why can't the dev's release more info instead of leaving players to reconstruct tech trees and so on?
I absolutely hate this game.
I hate it so much that I've been up til 4 am three times since I bought it.
I hate it like Gollum hates the Ring.
Damn you Paradox, Damn you all.
Now, if I can just convince the UK to ally with me, then we can take care of this Austrian problem once and for all....
I hate it so much that I've been up til 4 am three times since I bought it.
I hate it like Gollum hates the Ring.
Damn you Paradox, Damn you all.
Now, if I can just convince the UK to ally with me, then we can take care of this Austrian problem once and for all....
Well, mabye its just me. It seems that no matter what I do I have a majority of my provinces red on the revolt screen. This wouln't be a problem if there was a button that would automatically send troops to stop the revolt. This isnt the case. I have to manually send my little peacekeeper corps all over the place(which really sucks when your Russia!
) I'm trying to get more social projects going so that may help.
This is the first time I've seen that complaint, I see quite a lot of wars in my games.
The unification events are a bit messed up ATM, especially italy, but Germany's works just fine when you play them. Saying there are no evens is just crazy, there is just under the amount in EUII but in 85 years instead of in 400.
Weird, never seen that. Aside from Greece, who are usally eatten my the Ottomans, they are all active in my games.
Well, that's what happened IRL, is it not?
I agree armies are too large and could do with being reduce a bit, but not to historical levels. With divs of 10,000 men being the basic unit historically sized armies would be unable to cover countries effectivly.
Average
I'd give the game a 6 on a scale of 1 to 10.
The only thing I think was really flubbed badly was the documentation. That is a major deal given the lack of a tutorial or any sort of in game help. Not a show stopper but definately a pain.
Although I've encountered a few bugs, it's actualy not too bad in that department (unlike HOI which was absolutely crippled by bugs... but finally has turned into a very good game in the recent patchs).
My biggest problem with the game is that I actualy find it kind of boring. There doesn't seem to be the kind of "oomph!" to it that I've found in previous Paradox titles.
Most of the game play seems more tedium to me then excitement.
It's kind of frustrating because I like alot of the concepts in the game......and I can't quite put my foot on exactly where it misses but it definately does seem to miss the mark for me.
It's one of those games that when my freinds ask me about I advise them to try it out for a few hours at a freinds before deciding whether they should buy it. Likely I wouldn't have bought it had I done so....but it's not a particulary bad game by any stretch of the imagination.
I probably shelve it and go back to HOI with the latest patch
I'd give the game a 6 on a scale of 1 to 10.
The only thing I think was really flubbed badly was the documentation. That is a major deal given the lack of a tutorial or any sort of in game help. Not a show stopper but definately a pain.
Although I've encountered a few bugs, it's actualy not too bad in that department (unlike HOI which was absolutely crippled by bugs... but finally has turned into a very good game in the recent patchs).
My biggest problem with the game is that I actualy find it kind of boring. There doesn't seem to be the kind of "oomph!" to it that I've found in previous Paradox titles.
Most of the game play seems more tedium to me then excitement.
It's kind of frustrating because I like alot of the concepts in the game......and I can't quite put my foot on exactly where it misses but it definately does seem to miss the mark for me.
It's one of those games that when my freinds ask me about I advise them to try it out for a few hours at a freinds before deciding whether they should buy it. Likely I wouldn't have bought it had I done so....but it's not a particulary bad game by any stretch of the imagination.
I probably shelve it and go back to HOI with the latest patch
Yeah, when i first started playing the game, that began to be a problem. Just hover your mouse over the POPs and see what is pissing them off.Originally posted by DukeWilleo1630
Well, mabye its just me. It seems that no matter what I do I have a majority of my provinces red on the revolt screen. This wouln't be a problem if there was a button that would automatically send troops to stop the revolt. This isnt the case. I have to manually send my little peacekeeper corps all over the place(which really sucks when your Russia!
One big contributor to their increased militancy in my case was that it was late in the game and I still gave them no social reforms and especially plurality. So, I just let them vote and they picked their own government and were considerably happier.
Just played my first MP game, now that I'm getting the hang of it. I was Holland, other guy Belgium. We cooperated, although with his tiny army that can't last forever.
CTD in 1846 or something. But even with only a decade, that game made it clear to me that this is FANTASTIC work. We cooperated on suppression some Indonesian revolts, and while he industrializes madly, I've been racking up prestige by conquering tiny innocent countries. The flavor is perfect; nothing like little colonial wars to make it work. The moment when I finally fell in love with it was the moment I realized I was using Sumatran troops to suppress Sumatran rebels, and did it seem like reality all of a sudden.
Fix the bugs, boys. To the frustrated: keep learning. Once you've got the hang of both, it's a 5 star experience...
R.III
CTD in 1846 or something. But even with only a decade, that game made it clear to me that this is FANTASTIC work. We cooperated on suppression some Indonesian revolts, and while he industrializes madly, I've been racking up prestige by conquering tiny innocent countries. The flavor is perfect; nothing like little colonial wars to make it work. The moment when I finally fell in love with it was the moment I realized I was using Sumatran troops to suppress Sumatran rebels, and
did it seem like reality all of a sudden.Fix the bugs, boys. To the frustrated: keep learning. Once you've got the hang of both, it's a 5 star experience...
R.III
Thanks Darkrenown for your answers:
I've played a decade yesterday and something new has happened:
1. Wow, a colonial war between France and Spain
2. Some Portuguese colonialism efforts
3. Some newly created alliances in South America
But still a lot of nations are frozen. Could it depend on what country the human player is playing? In my case, I'm playing a small Central Italian duchy and my neighbours are totally frozen...
I've played a decade yesterday and something new has happened:
1. Wow, a colonial war between France and Spain
2. Some Portuguese colonialism efforts
3. Some newly created alliances in South America
But still a lot of nations are frozen. Could it depend on what country the human player is playing? In my case, I'm playing a small Central Italian duchy and my neighbours are totally frozen...
Hastu Neon, if you save & reload, does the ai 'kick off' again?
On another note: 1903 in my 2nd GC, this as Holland. I've conquered Belgium, have the UK as a defensive ally, and I'm in a naval race with the USA which is allied to France - my next target for some juicy bits.
US fleet is based at Norfolk, currently has 5 DN & 25 BB + several smaller ships. I have a cruiser squadron off the coast watching them while I prepare. I have 14 BB & 1 DN, plus another 15 DN due for completion befor ethe end of the year. I'm targeting sometime in 1904 for the kick-off time
BTW Brittania really does rule the waves: 94BB & 4 DN but I expect them to build many, many more!
An (incomplete) list of things missing:
On another note: 1903 in my 2nd GC, this as Holland. I've conquered Belgium, have the UK as a defensive ally, and I'm in a naval race with the USA which is allied to France - my next target for some juicy bits.
US fleet is based at Norfolk, currently has 5 DN & 25 BB + several smaller ships. I have a cruiser squadron off the coast watching them while I prepare. I have 14 BB & 1 DN, plus another 15 DN due for completion befor ethe end of the year. I'm targeting sometime in 1904 for the kick-off time
BTW Brittania really does rule the waves: 94BB & 4 DN but I expect them to build many, many more!
An (incomplete) list of things missing:
- Ranges for ships
- Some degree of degradation for vessels at sea - like HOI
- AI trades with me. So far there haven't been any.
- Tanks. But it's only 1903 so I guess the trigger conditions probably haven't been met yet (so far I haven't looked.)
[/list=1] I have only 192MB of RAM on a 750MHz PC. Loading time for the game is very long, I have time to go and make a coffee and it's still not complete. But it will load, and if I stay out of terrain mode it runs acceptably (not fast, but reasonable). Of course, if Johan et al bulk the game up in their patches that might change...
But it's still an 'Excellent' game for me.