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AdAstra

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Good Evening Everyone!

Playing as minors is fun and rewarding, but i feel like I need some advanced help with them. I am sure it is asked/replied and asked again but could not find anything solid answer for this problem...

Playing as BAR, Epirus, Granada, France Minors, Maledives, Ryukyu and others...


Anyone care to share some of their strategies/tips/hints etc how do you make these nations serious powers?


In my current game (Vanilla N/N 50/25 random lucky nations) as a BAR I managed to survive 16 years only :/ So help would be gladly appriciated. (No reloading/cheating and such of course)


Thanks for advance!
 

brifbates

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It depends a lot on why a nation is "unplayable" as to what strategies/tactics you need to employ. In most cases some abuse of the known ai issues or cheesy game mechanic abuse is needed for the real bad nations to succeed.
 

Witty Name Here

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Make sacrifices to the Gods and pray for a mass rebellion. I take over a few territories to bring myself up to strength, if the AI is unwilling to negotiate, even if I control most of their territory I "cheat" (justifiably though) and force them to accept a peace deal where they give up some lands.
 

Hiram_Maxim

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In Miscmods, Mongol Khanate starts as a vassal of Ming which is a curse and a blessing: You have to fork over half your taxes but they do protect you from outside aggression. Definitely go free trade, as there's not much money to be had in an iron monopoly over Central Asia's dozens of grain and wool provinces. Wait for unrest in neighbouring countries and use spies to spawn Mongol Patriot armies in provinces ruled by non-Mongols. As the decades pass, you move your sliders to modernize and wait for Chinese minors like Xia, Wu, etc, to emerge and start grabbing Ming territory, which is your cue to cancel vassalization. Hopefully by now you're either strong enough to fight Manchu, or they're your ally.
 

AdAstra

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It depends a lot on why a nation is "unplayable" as to what strategies/tactics you need to employ. In most cases some abuse of the known ai issues or cheesy game mechanic abuse is needed for the real bad nations to succeed.

If we skip luck factor from this conversation and focus on those strategies/tactics I am interested about! So what are they? Bring in some secrets!
 

sprites

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With some countries (bar) you'd better use your diplomats to get two alliances day 1 or burgundy WILL stomp you hard and quick.
Well , not if you messed up with the dates first , so they don't start with a core on you , but that is another level of cheesiness.
 

unmerged(233159)

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General Tips: dominate some trade (don't get knocked out/embargoed), keep your head down, ally larger nations, and be sure to gift and access your enemies so you at least get a warning before you are attacked; if not, they take a hefty stab. Be wary of the AI's ego and be sure to pounce on opportunities: being too cautious will make for a boring game.

As the Knights in my current summer multiplayer game (start 1399), I relied on my Guarantees and being in Castille's sphere of influence to deter the Ottomans, Venice, Naples, and other hungry nations. To preface: the other nations are Sweden, Brandenburg, and Switzerland. Two are landlocked and Sweden wanted to become Scandinavia->Scandarussia. Everyone thought I was going to be knocked out in the first few years by the Ottomans.
Also: Portugal was landlocked at one point and did not choose QFTNW as their second NI. Castille went a different route as well, since they were concerned with constant BBB wars. I did mint a bit, but always brought it back down.

For a good opening, ally the Papal States and Aquilia right away. Convert your ruler to a general. Put them into your cog. Ask Achea for Access. DoW on the Byzantine Empire after they have gone to war with Karamon or Candar (October 14th). Invade Morea and CtA the Papal States or Aquilia. Your ally will invade Thrace. Take their ducats and Morea. Keep your men in Morea, because you can only have one.

Take the Alexandria CoT. Not much European competition. Wait it out and pump Government to 4. Grab Unam Sanctum. Then pump Trade to 7. I was able to get a Core on Malta, Crete, and Cyprus via Missions and Events. I gifted, guaranteed, accessed, then allied with the Ottomans for a bit to take those territories. Whenever you have the chance, DoW on the Byzantines every time they try to free themselves. Spend your time building Workshops on your Wine provinces, raiding Georgia, or Settlement Policing to have Maltese everywhere.

By the time I had Morea, Crete, Rhodes, and Cyprus, I had a few Carracks and a few cogs. I loaded them up and DoWed on Sicily who were allied to the Papal State after they had lost in a war to Milan and Aragon. Naples DoWed Sicily a month after me and helped clean up the Papal States while I grabbed Malta. The Ottomans broke our alliance. This was around 1435. I left Castille's SoI and they allied me. I chose Colonial Ventures as my second Idea.

I switched ideas to QFTNW and snatched both Cape Verde and the Canaries. By this point, I had 8,000 soldiers. I asked Castille for military access and began to explore the new world. This took more time then I anticipated and took Kozani back in the old world. Once I found the Mayans, I sent 4,000 men down with a Conquistador then ferried over the other 4,000 while the Conquistador explored Central America. During this time, I used my Carracks back in the Old World to help Castille fight whomever, while they gave me war subsidies ranging from 9-10 a month.

I invaded the Maya and took four provinces and 2,000 ducats. I occupied the four with 2,000 stacks until the Forts were done then made 4,000 go home while I built more troops to ferry over. After Forts were done, I immediately began conversion. It was 1450. Over the next 20 years I was in 3 more wars with the Maya that earned my growing empire 3,000 more ducats and all their provinces. I was lucky enough to get Cores on Petan and Mexico. I moved my capital to Mexico. I chose Land of Opportunity.

Now, I am colonizing Northern South America and connecting to the Inca, were I have done two raids and earned 2,500 ducats. It is important to have 1,000 laying around for carpet colonizing. I now have 34 Catholic Provinces, mostly Maltese, and I am almost connected to the Inca. Ottomans are still on Great Relations and trust me utterly, Castille is being slowly torn apart by France but trusts me utterly, and I allied with Naples for some Mediterranean domination. Though, I am suffering some serious over-extension. Unavoidable in my case, because I think Portugal, Great Britian (minus a 3 province Tyrone), and Castille will take QFTNW as their third NI. My fourth, which I should be getting in 1510ish, will be Church Attendance to stave off the Reformation.
 

gela1212

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Ryukyu involves a lot of commerce optimization and rushing to trade 7 for me. If you can get trade 7 by ~1490, you should be set. Just colonize the islands near you up to full cities. The main thing is defending yourself up until you've teched as far as you can in the Chinese tech group without slowing massively, and take out some small SEA nations.

Another option is more risky, but involves declaring war on a SEA nation with no forts (I think Khmer is one) and taking a province from them after rushing their undefended provinces. Then you can bankrupt yourself after losing Ryukyu (very rarely happens in DW due to the SoI from Ming) and switch religion. Following that, be as opportunistic as possible.
 

Nerga

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Go Free trade so you can get a ton of cash. When you are rich with a large tech advantage, you go over your force limits and wait for a time to stab the nearest enemy in the back. You have to be opportunistic and underhanded to win as an opm. Some things aren't that bad. French vassals you wait until France is at war and you go for independence and grab some land. Bar is mostly hoping Burgundy doesn't day 1 crush you.
 

CyberEagle

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France Minors

Those aren't all that hard, actually, especially if you have, or manage to get, coastal provinces and thus can play at colonisation. You can refuse annexiation and France will usually not immediatly go after you. And back when I tried Berry, the alliance also still lasted a few years after I canceled the Vassalisation, but that was back before the first patch for DW, don't know how it has changed since then.
 

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As Ryukyu you can get to trade 7 well before 1490 :D

Actually, I believe I may have worded that wrong. When I said "if you get it by 1490, you should be set" I wasn't saying this was when you should get it, but rather the latest time you can get it and still be pretty much in the clear.
 

Manic Eskimo

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How do you avoid war with Japan as Ryuku? This thread inspired me to have a go at it last night I got to 1420 and I was very happy with how quickly my tech was progressing. Then Japan declared war and reached me before my troops had full morale. Game over.
 

Jos de trol

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Basically I use my first slider move to do a centralization, then I always get a pretender rising, then I die. I've started doing other slider moves, but ultimately it only prolongs the suffering really.
 

AdAstra

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Bar --> If Burgundy does not dow then also taking Navarra / other NON HRE opm as a starting war is a good start I presume. Same goes as France Minors...

Next survival problem is with Granada...does Castille EVER stop annexing you in DW? I yet to figure out how to survive as this one :/


There should be really an option to offer vassalization as peace terms. Would be much easier to play as minors :/
 
Last edited:

Caban

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With Granada you pretty much have to move off the Iberian peninsula. Take out Tunisia, The Knights, or something similar.

The Knights is actually a decent idea as you will already be at war with their protector.