How do you make money?

[daimoh]

Hi all,

I've tried so many different variations of transport networks - metro ring lines with tram feeders inside densely populated areas with bus feeders to the tram & metro lines, long bus loops, short bus loops, few station loops, many station loops, lots of buses on one loop, few buses on one loop - absolutely everything I can think of.

I've even done a sandbox game with lots of money, lots of banks etc., just so I could set everything up from scratch and see how it goes. Still no luck.

The city is Berlin and I can never seem to make an overall profit. Individual lines are usually profitable, but with wages, maintenance, loan repayments etc., I always end up losing between $1,000 and $2,000 a month - no matter how big/expensive the network I've built is.

What's the secret? Does someone have a Berlin save game they have that I can load and have a look at? Or a walkthrough of the first mission in the campaign, so I can see how you can beat it?

Thanks!

 

[The Blood Eagle]

Try starting by building 3 connected metro stops in busy parts of town, with bus stops connected to each metro stop.

 

[Tapsa]

Read these forums. There are several threads here with tips for beginners.

 

[daimoh]

I've read quite a few, but many tips conflict (do short lines with few stops, do long lines with many stops) and as far as I can tell, the only way to succeed is to have very, very expensive tickets.

 

[unmerged(169164)]

One way to learn the game and understand how it could be played is to focus on one type of passengers to transport.

I did this with pensioners. I started a game in 1920 and built a network allowing all pensioners to move around the city.

It allows to underline what brings a line to be profitable, what the issues are, what expectations to put on a network and how the network lives through the various stages of prosperity and depression.

It underlines the differences between social categories, how to attract this or that category to the network.

It allows to give a proper dimension to cars, what cars to use on a line to service well.

Through this approach, all lines can be profitable with a low ticket price (I usually start my lines with a price two or one click higher than the first dark green price in descending order)

My conclusion due to this approach is that a network works well when it is designed with a nominal capacity idea by line in mind.

Lines are determined to work at a certain percentage of the total capacity. A three stops line (A->B->A) with a 10 seat vehicle on has a 20 passengers total capacity. The line must haul around 12 to 15 passengers to be well designed as I set the nominal capacity to be around 60 to 75 pc of the total capacity.

After that, the line is affected by the economical conditions: in recession, less passengers so I have to act to bring more passengers to the line. In booming times, more passengers sent to the line so I act to decrease the number of passengers to the line or increase the total capacity of the line by taking a vehicle from the depot to soak up the excess of passengers.
Everytime, this is done through the attractivity of the network.

Etc

 

[douglasrac]

It's all about your network. 2 important points: your network should reach all parts of the city, because you never know where a citizen wants to go (church, shop, work, park, airport, cinema, etc). If your network do not reach most parts, people won't use it. It's dynamic and realistic (don't try to predict where people are going). Second, build your lines carefully. Short lines are needed in some places, long lines are needed in other places. There is no rule. Depends on the city and the place and how you want people to move around. So, you need to create your lines in a way that won't be too much crowed and won't be too much empty. If you have 300 people waiting in a tram line, don't think your tram line is a success and increase number of trams. Delete that and re-think. Click on some people and see where they are going and why they are trying to use that line.

Saved Games: http://citiesinmotion.wikispaces.com/Saved+Games
Tips: http://citiesinmotion.wikispaces.com/Hints
Typical issues and how to correct them while planning routes: http://citiesinmotion.wikispaces.com/Mobility+Guide

Would be nice if you could send your saved game. Your Berlin map with big coverage and no profit, so we can look and tell you where is the problem.

 

[unmerged(7769)]

I've read quite a few, but many tips conflict (do short lines with few stops, do long lines with many stops) and as far as I can tell, the only way to succeed is to have very, very expensive tickets.

The only mod I use is one that automatically adjusts ticket prices to keep them in the green (which is not "very, very expensive"), and I have learned how to make a profitable network, so it can be done without using expensive tickets. You are right that there are many bits of conflicting advice and I think this is because there are different ways to be successful in this game. For example, as one person suggested starting with a metro line that has three stops (at least one at a train station or airport, and one at a department store), as well as feeder lines is pretty much guaranteed to work. But also keep in mind that the game is designed to increase traffic and if you do not eventually provide a way for people to use your network to get where they want to go then the traffic will clog up the streets, making your bus and tram lines inefficient. So, the game is designed such that over time you want to increase your coverage of the city so that people prefer to use your network rather than drive themselves.

To do that, as some have suggested, you need to design a network that allows people to transfer from anyplace to anyplace (within reason!). In order to be profitable you need to keep in mind a few things. People have pointed out that a passenger can transfer from one bus line to another with no additional fee, or from one tram line to another with no additional fee, etc. So, one successful strategy is to provide a metro backbone that connects the key spots of the city, and then build a series of feeder lines such that people will transfer from one type of vehicle to another (within reason!) to get to and from the metro stops. This generates more ticket revenue than building a feeder network using all the same type of vehicle.

Some other things to keep in mind are the ongoing costs of running a network. I keep my maintenance budget set to maximum because breakdowns cost money in terms of repairs and lost revenue. The game also seems to favor trams over busses in many situations. For example, in 1920 you can get a 10 passenger bus or a 10 passenger tram. The bus has a fuel consumption of 9 while the tram has a fuel consumption of 13. It is not stated anywhere I can find what exactly this means, but if we assume that the consumption is based on traveling a certain distance, and calculate the cost to move the vehicles the same distance given the cost of the fuel or electricity used, then it turns out it is cheaper to operate the tram, and for most of the game trams are much faster than busses as well. So, in many situations it will be cheaper to use trams and they will be able to handle more passengers than busses in a given period of time. Still, I create a network of alternating busses and trams such that everyone can get to a metro stop with a few transfers. It is also good to remember that passengers will walk a reasonable distance between stops in order to connect to the next line on their journey. They might prefer that all the stops are adjacent to each other, but they are willing to do some walking.

Having said all of this, there are some cases where I will operate bus lines that lose money in order to have them feed the more profitable parts of the network, and in order to minimize traffic on the streets. Use water busses and helicopters sparingly and carefully!

 

[Rik81]

A very interesting and helpful thread! Thanks to those who seem to know what they are doing. Now if I can just execute the suggestions.

 

[unmerged(385513)]

thanks for the tips. i will try it out

 

[unmerged(174953)]

Try the massive Munich Campaign, when you start you show see two tramlines, connect the two together. Go from there, the point is to not worry about meeting the demands of a certain group unless you have a terrible rep with them. Always try for general coverage instead. What I learned form the campaign was to build upon your lines and interconnect them, this way the people and transfer from line to line and this way you become more profitable. My goal is always to build a line that is self sufficient in profit and then interconnect it to further boost profits.

 

[unmerged(380648)]

Try the massive Munich Campaign, when you start you show see two tramlines, connect the two together. Go from there, the point is to not worry about meeting the demands of a certain group unless you have a terrible rep with them. Always try for general coverage instead. What I learned form the campaign was to build upon your lines and interconnect them, this way the people and transfer from line to line and this way you become more profitable. My goal is always to build a line that is self sufficient in profit and then interconnect it to further boost profits.

Yep. That's the most important thing. Don't bother build a line (unless it's for a scenario requirement) unless you are able to connect the line to your network of lines via a stop being across the road (etc.)
The Blood Eagle hit on the nail. Use Metro to connect to the furthest corner portions of your city. Use bus and upgrade to trams and have the bus stops bring customers to and from your metro stations.

A good example is to build a metro going north to south : 2 stops. Build 2-3 bus lines feeding people into and out of each of these stops. Remember people will come to the metro station from the south part of the city to go shopping. and people will go to the metro station to go south.

 

[Balthagor]

This is indeed a useful thread, thanks to all contributors.