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Aotrs Commander

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I am a newcomer to the game. I came in not long ago, havign only this year gotten in Paradox Grand Strats, after playing EUIV then Stellaris.

I, because I am insane, started out by playing Bzantium (albiet set on Easy). I learned through a combination of thoroughly reading, re-reading and consoluting the afore-linked CK2 wiki and asking questions on the forum here (especially the quick questions and answers thread), with a bit fo help from folks on my primary forum.

That has worked for me, at any rate.
 

balmung60

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Unless something'd changed, each of the three 1066 Scandinavian kings offers a good trial-and-error crash course in different aspects of the game.

Norway starts at war with England and has a rival for its goal of dominion over England in William the Bastard. A few tries and you ought to be able to play the Anglo-Saxons and Normans against each other and walk out with uncontested control of England and fill it with loyal Norwegians

Sweden starts with great religious strife, but excellent expansion opportunities once you can figure out how to either stop the heathens and convert them to Catholicism or restore the old ways and eject all Catholics from the realm. The general idea is to figure out how to stablize an unstable realm with little outside threat. Either way, celebrate by invading Finland, and if you do restore Pagan rule, aim for the reformation by sniping the Norwegians while they're busy in England or elsewhere and the Danes whenever they're convenient targets.

Denmark has less room for easy expansion, but Svein II has an astounding number of children with which to form non-aggression pacts and alliances (IIRC, in normal gameplay, the game will stop letting you sire children before you have as many as he does) and a stable realm. He also has a claim on England. Try to wrangle a strong or at least useful alliance or two (eg. France, Scotland, or the HRE) and take England for yourself, or engage in some Baltic adventurism, putting down the Pagans and establishing Danish dominion over the Baltic coast.

As any of these, you also will likely be able to get your act together (or fail and have to restart) in time for the First Crusade, giving you a shot at the kingdom of Jerusalem, and at becoming a literal Crusader King.
 

RelVleDy

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Another suggestion is to try the mod "Game of Thrones" to learn the system.

Okay, I've got to be honest, that is the absolute worst advice I have ever read. If someone wants to learn how to play a game, why would they start with a total conversion mod? That's like trying to teach someone how to dive before they can swim.

I understand maybe you're excited for the mod, and I do know some people who have gotten into CKII because of AGoT, but for someone who's struggling with the basics, showing them a mod that takes a crap on those basics is NOT the way to learn.
 
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Xinkc

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I learned through a combination of the tutorial, the wiki for some of the deliberately obscured stuff, and watching Arumba07 play a bit of the game.
 

nwil10

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If you are accepting of a possible early "loss" try Eric the Heathen in Sweden. That game will likely be your favorite of all time since you will have a difficult time taking and maintaining the kingdom of Sweden. Its definately a challenge for an experienced player and truly difficult in a fun way for a novice of the game. It has everything: a powerful vassal, a kingdom claim, religious wars, differnt religious vassals (if you win), possibility to reform a religion and easy counts and dukes to declare war upon. Seriously try it.
 

Aries666

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One other piece of advice and it applies to all Paradox games is tooltips, tooltips, tooltips, mousing over pretty much anything will give a brief explanation of what it is. Seriously tooltips.
 
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Rags17

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:
How should I approach learning this game?

1. Online tutorials? Care to recommend any?
2. Videos? Drop me a link to one you feel does a good job.
3. Iterative learning? Should I just jump in and learn from my mistakes? Seems an odd way to learn, but it might create some funny stories (provided I can even tether the cause and effects together).

Anyhoo, thank you for any and all advice.


Very simple -
  • Start anywhere at any time. Go truly random.
  • Hover over then click on or right click on anything and everything - portraits, icons, text, provinces, menus.
  • If you want to do something try and guess how it should be done - for instance if you want to do something to someone try clicking on their portrait, your portrait, their home province, your home province. Keep clicking until you find how to do it.
  • If all else fails look at the Intrigue menu or any other icon that looks appropriate and click on that.
  • Run your little realm into the ground, or into the stars.
  • If all else fails pack it in and start again.

Cats may have nine lives, but thankfully there are more than a dozen ways to skin one in this game !
 
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abauer2

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Learn as you go and consult CK2 wiki when questions arise.

http://www.ckiiwiki.com/Crusader_Kings_II_Wiki

Be sure to avoid the wikiA page. It hasn't been updated as much and is swarming with ads.

As for me, I got the game after The Old Gods expansion and started out in pagan-land, although they were still feudal at the time. I think pagans, especially Germanic pagans in 867, are a good place to start. They get bonuses to the amount of troops they can field, can raid all over the place, including up rivers, and they can go to war with pretty much anyone (prepared invasions are sweet once you figure them out). Harald Fairhair is a good one since you start with some event troops and can form Norway pretty easily. Then go ravage the British Isles.
 

Gurkhal

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Okay, I've got to be honest, that is the absolute worst advice I have ever read. If someone wants to learn how to play a game, why would they start with a total conversion mod? That's like trying to teach someone how to dive before they can swim.

I understand maybe you're excited for the mod, and I do know some people who have gotten into CKII because of AGoT, but for someone who's struggling with the basics, showing them a mod that takes a crap on those basics is NOT the way to learn.

Thing is, the way I learnt to play the basic game was through that mod. And do you know why? Because dynastic management, managing vassals and other core features related to the feudal system are present and easier to handle, given that Westerosi is less chaotic than Europe or Asia in the core game, so you can often have large times of relative peace and under no significant pressure to tinker with your own dynastic and feudal stuff, rather than being throw into one crisis after another. When I tried the basic game first I was overwhelmed and didn't learn much except the frustration of never lasting into a fourth ruler and all the ways I could lose in. Then I tried Game of Thrones and the relatively calm Westeros gave me the chance to learn the core functions of the game, enough so that I could take on the main game and actually survive long enough to learn something from the experience.

That's why I suggested it.
 

Silversweeeper

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I would say that a good start to learn the game fulfils the following:

- Reasonably small. You don't want to start as an emperor or a king of a big kingdom as it is very likely that you'd get a rebellion before you knew that you had done anything wrong.

- Reasonably secure. Don't start as a count or small duke next to a powerful realm of a different faith, and powerful rulers of your own faith aren't always safer neighbours, particularly not if they have de jure claims.

- Reasonably friendly for early expansion by war or marriage. You don't want to be the weakest realm/vassal in the area.

- Non-heretic feudal Christian in Europe. The Christian mechanics are somewhat easier than those for other religions (and don't require a DLC), feudals don't have to get out of tribalism or have to manage patricians and trade posts, and starting outside Europe as a Christian likely means Abyssinia or Georgia, both of which have some problematic neighbours that easily can cause game over.


Some ideas with their advantages and disadvantages:

- Any relatively strong vassal duke in th HRE. You are completely safe from foreign realms (unless you become the emperor) and can try to expand inside the realm through war and marriage. Disadvantages include that you could become the emperor (which isn't recommended unless you know what you are doing), that the emperor might enact laws to restrict vassal warfare, that the emperor could decide that he doesn't like you and imprison you or revoke your stuff, and that your vassals potentially might be elected emperor, which would make them your liege rather than your subject.

- The duke of Bohemia or Duchess Matilda of Tuscany (both in the Stamford Bridge bookmark). Somewhat similar to the above, but both can relatively easily form kingdoms before their heir takes over. Matilda has some expansion opportunities in the Italian Peninsula (and sometimes the Balkans and Africa, depending on what happens there) and the duke/soon-to-be king of Bohemia can try taking land from Poland or Hungary when they are weak and eventually lead the charge against the pagans in the Baltic/Russia. As both are foreigners (and Matilda is a woman, which disqualifies her) it is less likely that you'd get elected emperor, but if that happens you'd probably face larger problems from rebellious vassals as the Germans won't like a foreign liege, so keep that in mind. Matilda also must marry matrilineary unless you want the game to end.

- Duke Robert of Apulia (Stamford Brdige). You start fairly strong in the southern part of the Italian Peninsula (de jure in the kingdom of Sicily) and should be able to holy war your way to become king of Sicily before you die if you are careful (make sure to allow your levies to replenish between wars and try to get some money for mercenaries) and can then expand into Africa. Disadvantages include nearby republics getting greedy, the Fatimids or other Muslim powers in Africa potentially opposing you, the HRE possibly getting claims on you or heading into Africa before you can do that, the Byzantines deciding to press their de jure claims on anything in the kingdom of Sicily, and that quite a few of your kinsmen are landed vassals (and potentially claimants) or might decide to go adventuring (if you have tOG), which could cause some trouble.

- The kings of Castile, Leon, and Galicia (Stamford Bridge). They start relatively strong but with claims on each other. You will very likely end up fighting or killing your brothers to keep yourself safe (or possibly just because you want their stuff). After that you can either expand via marriages in France (the duke of Aquitaine has some nice daughters, and if you arrange the right accidents you might inherit all of his stuff, even if that has some risks), via claims or marriages in Brittany or Ireland, or, more historically, via holy wars in the Iberian Peninsula. Dangers come from the Muslims to your south potentially uniting against you, France or the HRE possibly wanting to get into the Peninsula, overly aggressive merchant republics wanting to get into the Peninsula, and the fact that you very likely will end up with three kingdoms and gavelkind succession early on, which means your realm will split apart on death unless you only have one son (or one daughter, if all sons are dead/disqualified) or form an empire (you could go with elective, but that means that your vassals migth decide that they don't like your chosen successor and that they want to vote for someone else (possibly themselves) instead.

- More or less anyone in Ireland (Stamford Bridge). Barring Scotland (rather unlikely) or England (proably less likely than Scotland) getting involved early on you should be able to fabricate claims and use mercenaries to become the king of Ireland, after which you can slowly expand in the rest of the British Isles. Advantages are that you are very safe (everyone in Ireland starts at close to the same strength and foreign intervention is relatively rare) and that you get a lot of time to learn the mechanics as you successively get more vassals to worry about. Disadvantages are that you will be playing as the underdog for a long time, that any foreign intervention is likely to be a big problem, that you are relatively reliant on claims and mercs (which is costly and slow) to expand, and that you likely will miss out on a lot of the early holy warring (which can be fun and is an excellent way to get land without claims) except for the crusades themselves (I would advise that you try not to win Jerusalem early on unless you know what you are doing as the nearby Muslims will want to take that back and are rather powerful). As an Irish lord, you can also get out of gavelkind very early on if you want to use tanistry (basically elective, but restricted to your dynasty), but keep in mind that your vassals might like distant cousins more than your chosen heir and that they themselves might pick up tanistry to try to foul up any plans you have to inherit their stuff or to merge their subrealms together to potentialyl threaten your rule.
 
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Da 'ard way.
 

StarSword

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I played the tutorial with the Jimenas for a little while, hit a wall, and tried my hand at an Irish tribal in 769, Áed Mac Gabráin, the Petty King of Dál Riata (independent duke of d_isles), who is uniquely an Irish-culture ruler in Scotland. On reflection, I wouldn't actually recommend a beginner start there: you're in de jure Pictland and staying independent can be rough: it took me three tries before I figured out how to keep the Picts from conquering me (namely raiding until I had enough prestige to call a tribal army).

Basically, the idea is to learn the basic expansion mechanics someplace where outside threats are low. The trick about this game, it's more about politics than about war. You have to have cause, a casus belli, to declare war on someone.

I suggest starting as a count or chief in the southwest corner of Ireland: there's a three-county duchy called Munster that you can create with one conquest. If you're playing in the tribal period (769-867 IIRC) you could also pick Dublin because they have a bigger tribe (tribes get buffs to troop count based on empty holding slots, which Dublin has the most of by default), but that's not as interesting in terms of whom you can vassalize and how.
  1. Pick whichever count in Munster whose name and coat of arms you like, it doesn't really matter. The attraction of Ireland as a game location is that almost everybody is about the strength.
  2. Marry into one of the larger Anglo-Saxon kingdoms across the strait (Mercia or Wessex generally works) for a military alliance.
  3. Set your chancellor to fabricate a claim to one of the other two counties in Munster. Make sure to reset him from the council menu once every six months (click the "Fabricate Claim" button and then click the target county again), because the target ruler may bribe your chancellor to stop him from creating the claim.
  4. Once you have the claim, declare war and bring in your ally if you need the extra troops.
  5. Once you've conquered it, you can create the duchy. You'll go from Earl or Chief of Somethinghumhain to Petty King of Mumu (Munster in Irish), and you'll automatically have de jure rulership over the third county and can do one of two things:
    • Right-click the count and click "offer vassalization". If he likes you, he'll agree to become your vassal.
    • If he refuses, then as King of Mumu you can freely conquer him with your de jure casus belli.
  6. From there it's easy enough to expand across the Green Isle. Once you have 51% of the counties, you can create the Kingdom of Ireland and the remaining counts should be willing to pledge allegiance when asked. Then set your sights on seizing control of all of Britain. Along the way, keep in mind that you can also press the claims of your vassals and relatives: a claim war on behalf of either a vassal and/or a member of your dynasty for a title of lower rank than your own will result in the claimant becoming or remaining your vassal upon victory.
I hope this helps.
 
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Semigall

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I just played and googled the stuff I needed info. And that's it :)
 

Cymsdale

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I think it's best is to simply just play the game and reference the Wiki whenever you want a deeper understanding of how something specific works. It's not really a game you can 'win', so don't worry too much about how well you are doing. If you reach a lose condition, it's merely just a opportunity to try playing in a different area/time.
 

Narr666

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Simply don´t mind loosing, that also get you in the spirit of the game. Don´t mind that you are "behind" like in other strategy games, because the best thing about CK2 is that there is no falling behind. Just play a bit until you wanna do something specific. Google that, try to do it. Don´t reload, you don´t have to. With every hour, you learn something new. I am at 466 h and recently learned I can choose how I vote on the Liege´s council and that you can´t start an independence faction when your capital borders his capital.

Simply play a ruler and enjoy the right. You can´t really do wrong.
 

Dracko81

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and that you can´t start an independence faction when your capital borders his capital.
That doesn't sound right. There are numerous reasons why you can't start/join an independence faction and I don't think there is a neighbouring condition at all.

But just play the game. Press all the buttons and make mistakes. Mistakes lead to learning how to play the game how you want to.

Biggest issue with online tutorials is they waffle on about things that have no relevance to what you want. If you get stuck or don't know why something happened, ask on the forums.
 

Narr666

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That doesn't sound right. There are numerous reasons why you can't start/join an independence faction and I don't think there is a neighbouring condition at all.

I wouldn´t have known, but I can assure this to you. Couldn´t start an independence faction. Found this requirement somewhere. -> Moved my capital away. Could start the faction.

Here´s even a guy who posted the code: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/cant-form-independence-faction.738307/

# Not allowed to start factions like this if our capital borders the liege's capital

Search for aitaituo in the threat
 

Enish

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Simply don´t mind loosing, that also get you in the spirit of the game. Don´t mind that you are "behind" like in other strategy games, because the best thing about CK2 is that there is no falling behind. Just play a bit until you wanna do something specific. Google that, try to do it. Don´t reload, you don´t have to. With every hour, you learn something new. I am at 466 h and recently learned I can choose how I vote on the Liege´s council and that you can´t start an independence faction when your capital borders his capital.

Simply play a ruler and enjoy the right. You can´t really do wrong.

I guess my core fear, so far, is knowing when to unpause. Like with Civ, when I was first introduced to it, I always felt uncomfortable ending my turn, fearing potential actions were being left undone. Naturally, this is just a fear of unknown potential, and I'm certainly not a min/maxer ("winning," as you say, isn't really my concern), but glaringly stupid mistakes are a worry. Still, like you said, I should (and will) just suck it up.

Part of me wonders if I should face this fear by just starting a session and letting it run.

Quick question: I'm really looking forward to playing this around the 866 era, but how well modeled is this CKII? I know one needs the Old World expansion, which I seem to own, but you can play as a Christian Saxon kingdom, yes? I've been watching too much The Last Kingdom. :)