How do you learn this game?

[Enish]

Ello,

Crusader Kings II has been on my list for a little while, but it took the recent steam deal (offering pretty much everything for $40) to get me to finally take the plunge. I'm a pretty hardcore gamer, coming from a background as diverse as table top Battletech, to obscure euro board games, so detail isn't really a problem. Yet, I find myself rather intimidated and at a loss for how to start into this.

Naturally, my problem isn't the sheer complexity of the core game, but the fact I now own.. well.. pretty much everything. I opted to start with the learning tutorial, which I'm still playing through, but not only have I seemingly lost the tutorial portion of this experience (my hand certainly doesn't feel held), but the expansions have apparently altered the iconography on the GUI ever so slightly as well (i.e. the side bar images aren't a 1:1 match for what I see in the actual GUI). So far it hasn't been a problem, but I had to ask...

How should I approach learning this game?

1. Online tutorials? Care to recommend any?

2. Videos? Drop me a link to one you feel does a good job.

3. Iterative learning? Should I just jump in and learn from my mistakes? Seems an odd way to learn, but it might create some funny stories (provided I can even tether the cause and effects together).

Anyhoo, thank you for any and all advice.

 

[vandevere]

Your best bet would be a combination of all three, based upon whatever you would like to get out of playing this game...

 

[Enish]

True, but that still leaves me with a problem of identifying candidates to fulfill #1 and #2.

... and there is the issue of time. Being new I can only speculate as to how much has possibly changed due to expansions since whenever the video was made. Core ideas will be the same, true, but identifying the core ideas from the altered elements might get difficult beyond the basics.

Or maybe not. To gain clarity on this fear is why I posted

 

[Gurkhal]

Another suggestion is to try the mod "Game of Thrones" to learn the system. The big advantage is that Westeros is less hectic thant he standard CK II map and so if you play as House Arryn then you can be fairly certain that you'll face less rebellions, heresies and other nastiness than in Europe, Africa or Asia in CK II and given how Westeros is smaller, you don't run the same risk of being overwhelmed in the same way. And you already start with a good and fairly stabile reign if you play a Lord Paramount so you don't need to build up the realm from scratch.

That's at least something that worked pretty good for me, as I could play as Lord Lannister and learn the game in relative safety before jumping into the CK II maelstorm.

Of course there are many features that separates the two games, but I think that Game of Thrones mod should allow one to learn the basics.

 

[thevmag]

I've never liked video tutorials. Why make me sit through 15 minutes of what I can read in 3?

I learned through trying, failing, and trying some more. Sometimes I'd read stuff online, either in the wikis or forums, but the amount of additional knowledge gained there amounts more to tips and nuances.

Tried to get my girlfriend to play, and she chose to sit through the in-game tutorial step-by-step rather than take my offer to play together and show her the ropes. Needless to say, half an hour was all she needed to quit


A good way to learn is to play somewhere that is relatively stable, but gives you lots of opportunities to expand. Sure, the game isn't ALL warfare and conquest, but trying to succeed at that requires having to learn so many other aspects of the game. Southern Italy is great for easy, relaxing play to help you learn, though Wales also gives you a slower, safer attempt.

 

[Hiiri]

Learn as you go and consult CK2 wiki when questions arise.

http://www.ckiiwiki.com/Crusader_Kings_II_Wiki

 

[Pollux85]

The problem with directing you to something is that there are so many ways to play the game, Some people play with the goal of trying to expand the influence of their dynasty. Some people play to expand the borders of their realm. Some people play with the goal of keeping the realm happy, peaceful, and prosperous. Others play to overcome specific challenges (defeat the Mongols, reform the Pagans, win a crusade or jihad, establish a merchant republic), no matter the cost to their realm or their dynasty. Paradox has released expansions focusing and incentivizing all of these things over the years, making it very difficult to recommend something that is both concise and comprehensive.

My recommendation is that you pick somewhere that is relatively isolated (Ireland is the most popular, but anywhere in Britannia or Scandinavia is probably okay), use the cheats to give yourself a boatload of cash, and just start playing as a count or duke level character. You're less likely to get overrun because you're off in your own little corner and you'll have a large degree of control over your realm so you can explore options and play styles. At the same time, there will be many mechanics that will be closed off to you, which will make it less confusing, and you'll also have clear goals to work towards (try and become a king or emperor, or pass certain legal/religious reforms). Once you've experimented and know you're way around the sandbox, try playing as a different government or religion type.

 

[Bernard95]

Speaking from a 1000hrs of experience, you've got the right idea and mindset. Your best learning resources are YouTube videos, the Wiki, and these forums. Paradox has never been particularly great at tutorials, and I'd honestly just skip over it. Bear in mind though that CK2 like other Paradox titles requires quite the time investment to learn- it's easily going to take around 100hrs to learn the basics and another 50 or 100hrs to really know what you're doing. When you hit something like the 350-400hr mark, that's when you could be considered fully vetted and anything past 500 would be mastery.

Pretty much my standard advice is the following:

1) While Ireland can be an exceedingly boring start (yet a rite of passage for CK2 players), load up as an Irish count as your very first game. Follow along with Arumba's old tutorial series on YouTube, which is truthfully starting to show its age. However, he's pretty much the only person that has ever done a CK2 tutorial that doesn't date back to even older versions of the game. Thankfully though the core mechanics haven't changed all that much.

2) Play up to the point where you've united Ireland, then afterwards go for anything ducal-tier in 1066- especially if its within the sheltered confines of the HRE. Matilda of Tuscany is one of the ideal starts, since you can easily lay claim to all of Italy. Their are others though such as Vratislav of Bohemia, the Duke of Bavaria, the Duke of Apulia, etc.

3) Beyond that, take what you've learned and learn more about the art of war (specifically holy warring) by taking an Iberian kingdom in 1066 or alternatively Poland.

4) Then take everything you've learned about Christian feudals and try to apply it to another religion group or government. Haesteinn of Nantes or Halfdan "Whiteshirt" Hvitserk of Jorvik in 867 is an ideal start for pagan training, since they are uniquely already feudal. Muslims like pagans are built for rapid conquest and they would be equally ideal.

5) Ideally, this is when you should try to put yourself to the test a little- shoot for a Christian count and see if you can work your way up to the top or try your hand at the tribal government.

6) At this point, do what you like. Try another religion / government or practice the inheritance game with the Rurikids in 1066 or Karlings in 867. This would also be the time to try out any of the major mods such as AGOT, HIP, and CK2+.

 

[valvegas1]

play as one of the Irish counts in 1066 start first...very easy play-through and good for figuring things out...just focus on getting familiar with the basics...keeping vassals happy, when and how to declare wars, marrying for alliances and to gain claims to land in future generations, fending off opponents to your land and educating your kids...once ytou get a good grip on those things then everything else comes easy with a little trial and error...and of course theres the wiki and this forum if you need advice on specific things

 

[pesco77]

Way back when, I learned by iterative learning and by referring to the CK2 wiki: http://www.ckiiwiki.com/Crusader_Kings_II_Wiki

Also, I really did learn a lot by the tooltips. They are often very helpful in learning what affects what, even if it doesn't list to what extent.

I'd recommend playing in non-ironman mode for the first while. When you feel like you know your way around a bit, ironman offers a fun way to learn how to lose and keep going, becoming stronger than before. Stupid as this sounds, as a recovering save-scummer this was a new thing for me and it caused me to love the game even more.

There are also some really well regarded mods out there. If this style of game ends up being something you like (it's not for everyone), then the game has a lot of ways to be played in order to enjoy more (ironman, mods, etc).

 

[Iron Chariots]

Watching videos is pretty good. Rather than necessarily looking at tutorials, I think just watching gameplay is a better route-- you can see how it all works in practice. You don't need to watch too much, just enough to get a basic idea.

From there... honestly you just need to dive in. You will make mistakes and learn from them. Hover your mouse over all the buttons and read the tooltips. Before long, you'll have more specific questions, which people on this forum or one of the subreddits can probably help you answer.

 

[ApocalypseMao]

Trial and error. I like starting as an Anglo-Saxon petty king, usually Wessex, in 769. You're insulated from the big blobs and start with primogeniture succession. Form England, then go crusading or conquer Wales/Ireland/Scotland.

 

[TehJumpingJawa]

I envy you OP; learning the intricacies of CK2 & experiencing all it has to offer for the 1st time is truly a pleasure.

Just prepare for many 4am sessions; CK2 is the worst offender for 'just one more turn'.

 

[Aries666]

My preference for learning Paradox games and most things in general is through my own trial and error. For Paradox games that means your first few games will mostly be about learning the controls and mechanics with an expectation that you will 'lose'.

That being said my recommendations for your first games would all be in 1066 start as it's the best balanced. I would go with the king of Castile or Leon. This puts you on a relgious 'fault line' allowing to expand easily through holy wars (by far the easiest and quickest way to expand and secure a power base) at which point you will be able to play around with securing claims through marriages and going off on crusades. Some people recommend an Irish count and that's fine for learning the interface but the pace of the game will be slower as you will rely on fabricated claims for initial expansion (RNG determined) and you still have to wait for your first generation to start playing the marriage game.

For a second game I would recommend something like a French/German/Byzantine duke, this puts you in the middle of the feudal hierarchy and will test your abilities to control your own subjects whilst trying to advance your way up to the top.

After that it really depends on what you start to feel you enjoy about the game. If you have the respective DLC republics and nomads are really fun, though both are completely OP when you know what you are doing. Starting tribal and developing a nation is also good.

 

[Stolen Rutters]

I learned with 3, iterative. I never watched a lets play, I just read in this forum and read some of the wiki pages once they were populated.

Spoiler

First game I can remember, I started in 1066, William de Normandie, descendant of Rollo, in the earliest start date of the game at the time, vassal to the French King, starting at war with Anglo Saxon England... I thought I was doing well. I won England and took it over... then I died.

Game over, wait nope. Poof, I played the son and had another chance. The son's stats sucked! Then I was invaded by the big neighbor France and they took my home Duchy in Normandy! Aww man, Rouen was my best province. England wasn't giving me hardly any cash. I tried to attack Wales but then those Anglo Saxons rebelled, took half my country from me. My army was too small to do anything, so...

Second game, I made sure I got rid of those Anglo Saxons, revoke revoke revoke! I replaced them all with Normans, take that! It made all my other vassals mad I guess but I kept my army intact and fought off multiple rebellions. William lived a long time, and I got to take most of Wales and started pushing south through France. The Anglo Saxon counties started turning mostly English, neat, a couple became Norman, even better. Robert even died before me this time and I got the good son to take over, Henry I think (or was it William II?) Either way, I ended up as the grandson who was totally awesome. I ate through even more of France, I wanted the French Riviera, for vacation purposes obviously. There was a Crusade in there somewhere, and I took Jerusalem!!! Not sure how that worked at the time but it was a mess trying to give away all those titles. There weren't enough de Normandie family members so I had a bunch of provinces for myself, I started targeting Sicily and Tunisia so I could have a port to rest my ships and troops, then the game updated and they seriously increased penalties for holding that much land... so I started over.

Basically, you aren't playing a state, you aren't playing a single character. You play a character, then his or her heir, and so on. You only get a game over when your family house loses its line of succession and a non-family member takes your land away.

Sometimes a bad king happens, but you don't have to quit. You can even lose your kingdom, and be left with just one County! Game over? Nope... But if someone else in your family still has a claim to the highest throne, you can plot to put the family member into the Kingship and try and maneuver that character to be your heir, or your son's heir. Sometimes I like to play as a vassal Duke, plot to replace other Duchies within the kingdom with my relatives, then with the combined weight of the Kings Council in your corner, you can press your claim to the throne (sometimes) without a fight!

------

However, as a hardcore gamer, you are probably going to shoot for King straight away, take the Imperial title shortly after, push as many characters out of the way as possible and spread your Realm+House across the map. In that case, some let's plays might give you the specific gamer strategies you seek.

A random point... Decentralized realms let you keep more vassals at the cost of your personal demesne size, centralized crown laws let you hold more counties for yourself, but with far fewer vassals. When I start small, I centralize (for larger personal demesne) until I get up to my vassal limit, then I start decentralizing my growing realm as my vassals are replaced by my family House. Not sure how optimal that is for the hardcore, but it works for me.

 

[Matthias_Wlkp]

I'd recommend playing as a medium sized Duchy in HRE. Any will do.

 

[Iron Chariots]

I'd recommend playing as a medium sized Duchy in HRE. Any will do.

Not a bad option at all... better than the usual start of Ireland in 1066, arguably. Ireland was much more newbie friendly before they changed title creation from 50% to 51%.

 

[Kitsuka]

Watching Arumba's let's plays will help get you the lay of the land. They are mostly all dated at this point but they should help you get through your first steps of learning the absolute basics. My advice is to to watch a few different lets plays by different people and pay attention to how they start. You don't need to watch their whole series just a few episodes and pay attention to what they all have in common and what they are doing differently. The most important thing you need to learn is how to start. Once you have learn how to do all the basic actions start a game and play for awhile one generation maybe two, then then quit, and start another game with the same character.

I think the best place to start would be a count or a duke in the holy roman empire in 1066. Be aware that if you start as a count (especially in an early start date) you will have no money, and will likely find it very had to do anything. Also be aware that at the start of a new games things will move very slowly. You may need to wait years before you can do anything if you are unlucky.

Another thing I can tell you is don't wait to long to just jump right in. Play for a while, watch some videos, then play some more. It doesn't take long to start having fun but it take a very long time and many games to learn all the finer details of the game.

My final words of wisdom. If you are looking for the proper way to play stop right there and take a step back, because you are doing it wrong. This game is goal oriented, and the goals and how you achieve them are up to you. My suggestion is to start small and work your way up to grander ideas.

 

[SnayerX]

I started with the area I live in and played the game. It took me roughly 40h until I actually knew what I was doing.
This sounds a bit intimidating, but in my opinion this game is often the most fun when you don't try to outsmart it.
You will learn the details fast enough. So just go with the flow of events and try every boutton.

 

[Arona]

I learned by watching lets plays. I bought game, then ignored it half year, but watched Arumba lets plays. And and after 2 month i out played all my friends. Even if you undrestand fame mechanics first few games are hard to start, couse you dont know map and opponents. dont think tutorials help on that deep and comple game. But, people have different learning capablitis