• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Kovax

Field Marshal
10 Badges
May 13, 2003
9.160
7.205
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
Also... what do you do to keep things interesting? Self-imposed limitations?
I try to play the game as the leaders of the country would handle the situation. Only a criminally ambitious madman would declare wars and invade countries without any legitimate cause or reasonable justification, and trying to do so would get you overthrown or assassinated by your own party, if not your rivals. Note that Hitler had his justifications: previously German land with German population in foreign hands, and he was still the target of several unsuccessful assassination attempts by his own army.

Basically, if they wouldn't have done it, I'd better have some clear reason for doing so. That means, cores in foreign land are "fair game" if there's an incident (a suitable random event) that I can exploit to justify the declaration. I never piggyback wargoals onto some foreign power's war unless I occupy the claimed land myself. I try to avoid starting anything unless there's already a crisis that's distracting potential opponents, even though the AI won't actually lift a finger to stop you (waiting for the SCW, Marco Polo Bridge, Anschluss, etc., to make a diplomatically questionable move). It's far too easy to just go on a rampage starting in 1936 and taking over all of the countries that aren't in a faction or guaranteed by one, so one either plays it out as a shameless "take over the world as X", or else one has to Role Play their nation and avoid doing things that would have brought the entire civilized world together to stop you. That usually means playing a smaller faction and trying to utilize a "butterfly effect" approach to alter the major events with as little loss of life and bloodshed as possible. The idea is that war is the last resort when politics has failed, not an end in itself. They're your people. Treating them as data in a computer game and carelessly throwing them away to grab a patch of land in some forsaken corner of the world takes away the sense of connection with them as a nation or culture.
 

incognitus

General
25 Badges
Jun 17, 2011
1.848
114
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
Note that Hitler had his justifications: previously German land with German population in foreign hands, and he was still the target of several unsuccessful assassination attempts by his own army.
True, but it's a slightly different story with Japan, isn't it? I'm not an expert on their modern history, but their ambitions/conquests couldn't possibly have had any reasonable justification. Korea? Gimme. China? Gimme. Pacific Islands? Gimme. etc. pp.
The idea is that war is the last resort when politics has failed, not an end in itself.
While this is true IRL, it is not so much in a Paradox game. My problem is, that in any Clausewitz game (CK2 not quite so much), it is either wage war or sit on your ass and watch the days tick by. Everything other than warfare is some streamlined that it cannot occupy you for long.
They're your people. Treating them as data in a computer game and carelessly throwing them away to grab a patch of land in some forsaken corner of the world takes away the sense of connection with them as a nation or culture.
True, I thought about that as well. But then again... losses are minimal for the player.
 

Kovax

Field Marshal
10 Badges
May 13, 2003
9.160
7.205
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
Well, Japan was a special case, where the warlords essentially ran the country and planned to create a vast empire by overt military action, for the glory of the Emperor. Meanwhile, the Emperor was trying in vain to defuse the situation to protect the lives of his people, and being held captive in his own palace by those sworn to "protect" him. There are several clear cases in history of men bent on conquest for its own sake, and the neighboring states often ganged up to stop them, or unified into a single larger power for mutual defense.

The situation in the game is not comparable, because your aggressive actions will not always trigger a counter-action where they would do so in reality (whether military, economic, or political). If you go on a warmongering spree as a non-faction entity and boost your Threat to insane levels, the UK will generally declare war on Germany, not you. That, in my opinion, calls for some kind of restraint from the player in order to keep it within the bounds of reason, because the game itself is incapable of doing so.

Then there's HOI4, which essentially abandons any semblance of reason and lets anyone attack anyone else over some silly "focus" that may or may not have any connection with historical events or anything even resembling the likelihood of such an event. There's "plausible alternatives" and then there's "pure sandbox fantasy", and HOI4 steps well over that line.

There's also Victoria 2, where parking your posterior and watching the days tick past can net you a lot of economic gains, as opposed to getting a sizable portion of your population killed off in some pointless slaughter. The ideal situation is to have your neighbors at war, while you sit back comfortably, sell them stuff while their own factories are undermanned, and wait for colonization to start, or find some excuse to gobble up a few provinces from the loser of such a war without much bloodshed on your own part.

The original political aims of this game, as evident in the initial broken release of the vanilla game, lead me to suspect that the developers wanted to set up a situation as close to the historical one on Jan. 1, 1936, with roughly the historical motivations and diplomatic relations of the time, and let it run its course however it may. Unfortunately, the lack of sanity checks or restraint by the AI made it turn out completely absurd in the vast majority of campaigns, and the whole dysfunctional political side had to be gutted and replaced in a hurry with scripted events and decisions. I mourn what the game could have been, but am somewhat surprised that it eventually turned out as well as it did from that initial disastrous start.
 

Phili

Second Lieutenant
9 Badges
Dec 5, 2011
178
57
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Semper Fi
  • 500k Club
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
To keep the interest up I...

... have self imposed limitations (e.g. no gamey like landing behind frontlines or building reserves, no pause, a more historical pace)
... play a MOD (mainly my own, see link in signature ;))
... play on hard or very hard

I think that a MOD to randomize things a bit would be the way to go. The original Board game had 10 numbered counters and players picked one to create a random alteration to the game.
What If:
...Some were random.{oops missed a word, Some events were random, i.e some didn't happen at all or triggered an early war.}
...The leaders list was altered at the start of the game to give an extra trait or higher maximum levels to a few generals.
...National leaders could die so that Hitler can be assassinated or Churchill chokes on his Whisky.
...Some resources could be added to or subtracted from the game. In 1958 they found Oil under the sands of Libya but what if it had been found in 1938?

An alternative to the predefined elite units that the game has now would be to allow the player to pick regular units in the same way that a ship can be made the pride of the fleet. So a German player could select a Division with 1Arm +2Mot and make each of those three brigades an SS brigade and then an infantry division of 3inf + Art. A system like this would let the Soviets have Armored Guards divisions and also give minor countries have a few elite units.

And finally, why is the statue of Liberty the emblem for the Allies when the US doesn't start as an Allied nation and can be manipulated or influenced to stay out of the Allies?
 
Last edited:

Kovax

Field Marshal
10 Badges
May 13, 2003
9.160
7.205
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
And finally, why is the statue of Liberty the emblem for the Allies when the US doesn't start as an Allied nation and can be manipulated or influenced to stay out of the Allies?
Well, the statue was at least built by a country that is in the Allied faction at the start, even though it was given to the US. I suppose it has something to do with the uplifted torch, and the US, being perceived as shining beacons of democracy or something, rather than as a bunch of firebugs about to set fire to Tokyo and several other Japanese and German cities.
 

incognitus

General
25 Badges
Jun 17, 2011
1.848
114
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
I agree that the implementation of Elite units is a little gimmicky. But it is difficult to implement a better system. Only a small percentage of recruits fit for general duty are suitable to serve in such elite units and the only way that makes sense to me is to go by the total manpower value. Per x amount of total manpower, you can build one special unit. It doesn't have to be domestic, if we follow history and the game's notion that the Waffen-SS was indeed an elite fighting force, there were plenty of Dutch or Norwegian men in the Waffen-SS, so that would work.
 

ichitori

Sergeant
31 Badges
Oct 16, 2012
71
1
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Semper Fi
  • Rome Gold
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Cities in Motion
  • Stellaris
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Pride of Nations
  • 500k Club
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
Like someone else said, I play on Very Hard and that keeps me interested.

I haven't played the game in awhile, but I will probably play it again in the future. I have 400 hours as Germany in HOI 3, so I need a break.
 

incognitus

General
25 Badges
Jun 17, 2011
1.848
114
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
I'm not sure if Very Hard would be the solution for me. Maybe now, that I have managed to disable rebels, it would work... I will give it a go.

Edit: Oh no, I won't. Just checked the modifiers for very hard:

supply_throughput = -0.5
naval_base_efficiency = -0.5

No way am I going to increase the Supply madness any further.
 

Count Blue

Field Marshal
2 Badges
Mar 21, 2013
2.967
1.111
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
I'm not sure if Very Hard would be the solution for me. Maybe now, that I have managed to disable rebels, it would work... I will give it a go.
Edit: Oh no, I won't. Just checked the modifiers for very hard:
supply_throughput = -0.5
naval_base_efficiency = -0.5
No way am I going to increase the Supply madness any further.

Maybe mod your own difficulty, I did.
A combination of difficulties that fits your playstyle is the best.
 

incognitus

General
25 Badges
Jun 17, 2011
1.848
114
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
Maybe mod your own difficulty, I did.
A combination of difficulties that fits your playstyle is the best.
I was just thinking the same thing. I was thinking to actually use the IC/Ressource modifiers from very hard, but instead of reducing supply throughput, I was considering to increase it, to avoid those annoying nonsensical situations from my last campaign. How exactly does Supply Throughput work in the game, do you know?
 

Count Blue

Field Marshal
2 Badges
Mar 21, 2013
2.967
1.111
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
How exactly does Supply Throughput work in the game, do you know?

Each province has a throughput, hover with the mouse over one while switched to supply mode map you´ll see.
Thats about as far as my knowledge goes on that subject.
 

incognitus

General
25 Badges
Jun 17, 2011
1.848
114
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
Each province has a throughput, hover with the mouse over one while switched to supply mode map you´ll see.
Thats about as far as my knowledge goes on that subject.
Okay, thank you. I guess that means, if I increase the throughput value, it will be the equivalent of having higher infrastructure in all provinces.
 

Count Blue

Field Marshal
2 Badges
Mar 21, 2013
2.967
1.111
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
Okay, thank you. I guess that means, if I increase the throughput value, it will be the equivalent of having higher infrastructure in all provinces.

I would think so.
My simple rule regarding the point of supplies is research (or do) everything that improves it
and nothing that reduces it (or think at least twice about that). Same goes for manpower or repair rate.
I believe those three components are keystones for conquering the russians in the end.
 

Kovax

Field Marshal
10 Badges
May 13, 2003
9.160
7.205
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
I would think so.
My simple rule regarding the point of supplies is research (or do) everything that improves it
and nothing that reduces it (or think at least twice about that). Same goes for manpower or repair rate.
I believe those three components are keystones for conquering the russians in the end.
Either that, or encircling and destroying the majority of their army near your own territory, and then operating much leaner forces beyond that point. Oddly enough, I usually have more trouble keeping garrison divisions in supply not all that far from my capital than I have with supplying troops deep in enemy territory.
 

incognitus

General
25 Badges
Jun 17, 2011
1.848
114
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
I guess the easiest way is to form a solid front line (1 corps per province) and slowly creep towards Moskva, completely ignoring the south / Stalingrad and making up the lost VP by taking something along the Pacific coast. This will bind a lot of troops for a long time, though.
 

Kovax

Field Marshal
10 Badges
May 13, 2003
9.160
7.205
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
I guess the easiest way is to form a solid front line (1 corps per province) and slowly creep towards Moskva, completely ignoring the south / Stalingrad and making up the lost VP by taking something along the Pacific coast. This will bind a lot of troops for a long time, though.
This will result in a massive "grind", leading to manpower losses and a steadily growing Soviet army that you keep pushing back, but never destroy. Basically, this is exactly how to lose the war against them.

Ideally, you want to make breakthroughs (preferably two or more a few provinces apart), and then turn in to connect them and leave pockets of Soviet troops cut off. Those can be destroyed PERMANENTLY, meaning that you won't have to fight the same reorganized and reinforced division again, and again, and again, first all the way to the edge of Moscow, and then all the way back to Berlin. Only after you've eliminated a major portion of the Soviet army should you concentrate on advancing and taking VPs. You'll need a lot less troops at the front that way, and supplies are MUCH less of a problem for that leaner force. Incidentally, while you're wiping out Soviet divisions just over the old border, you can also start laying down the beginnings of a couple of Infrastructure highways that will serve you well later when you begin to advance.

The pocket battles and maneuvers are also a lot more entertaining than a slow grind across the entire front, which would bore me to tears.
 

Count Blue

Field Marshal
2 Badges
Mar 21, 2013
2.967
1.111
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
This will result in a massive "grind", leading to manpower losses and a steadily growing Soviet army that you keep pushing back, but never destroy. .

With fast exploit divisions you can also overrun them but pocket maneuvers and all that comes along with it are more fun.
 

incognitus

General
25 Badges
Jun 17, 2011
1.848
114
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
I agree that it's more fun, but in my experience those units that move quickly to cut corridors for a large-scale encirclement run out of supplies at the worst time possible and get killed off. My method, the slow meat grinder, seems to work just fine. Sure, I push throngs of fleeing troops from province to province, but since you can usually attack from two to three provinces at a time where it is advantageous, battles will usually start at 70+% in your favour and end after a day or less. Not too many losses on your side, really.

All my losses in that last war were fast units that got cut off and destroyed, my line divisions that did the Moscow Creep never lost a single battle and managed several times to encircle a couple of provinces and wipe out a dozen or so divisions. I guess it would be a lot of fun to cut a wedge into the SU from Leningrad down to the Black Sea and then kill off all units to the west of that corridor. You could even tried a two-pronged approach starting from Leningrad and Odesse simultaneously.

But I guess we have different ideas of "entertaining". To me the whole game is a boring tedium, that still keeps me interested for some strange reason. What frustrates me far more than spending hours moving counters forward one province at a time, is losing troops. Losing a single division to being cut-off is likely to make me ragequit the game and not play for a while / reload an early savegame and try to save that unit. This, btw, is also the reason why I hate the navy and air game in HOI3. Units take SO LONG to replace, it drives me insane to lose a ship or air wing. Oh yeah, did I mention I waged that war against the Soviet Union without a single air raid? ^^ I forgot to use my TACs... only towards the end I remembered and dropped some paras into Moskva.
 

incognitus

General
25 Badges
Jun 17, 2011
1.848
114
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
With fast exploit divisions you can also overrun them but pocket maneuvers and all that comes along with it are more fun.
That never seems to work for me. When I try to overrun the enemy with fast divisions, they always seem to move some other unit into the next province that slows me down and lets the retreating enemies escape.