How do you fight wars without triggering AFE?

[ywxiao]

Ever since 80 years into the game I've ran into the problem where I can't use my full force limit in a war because I read somewhere having 40k or more triggers AFE. So now I'm 120 years into the game, I'm only using 400 out of my 1500 forcelimit and riding it close at 39.8k military power.

Early on this wasn't a problem, but as my enemies grew from 3k to 4k to 6k, to now I am coming up against multiple enemy fleets of 10-12k, which when combined is bigger than my fleet. The way the AI likes to play hide and seek means I have to use 2 fleets of equal or greater strength to chase them down.

Wars are becoming a chore of carefully chosen sniping and grinding down their planets. How do you win wars at this point?

 

[Seryss]

The grinding down the ai planets, while their fleet runs all over the place never really stops. The ai does have a tendency to occasionally commit to bombing a planet that you've conquered though. You can also cheese the ai with a small sacrificial fleet that it will attack, but it likes to emergency ftl out if your big fleet shows - timing is important. You can also abuse the ai's placement of fortresses right on top of where their star port, and possibly fleet are, giving you time to kill them before they can EFTL out of there.

For AFE's you can do a few things. The easiest if one awakens too soon, and you don't have the ability to mass produce a ~100k fleet that counters it is.. save scum. It isn't a guaranteed awakening at x fleet strength it just increases the odds of it occurring. If you have a FE on your doorstep take him out asap. Conquering one FE will increase the chance of another awakening BUT you just gained a massive boost to your economy, multiple star ports, and a decent tech boost. This puts space between you and the FE that does awaken who has other issues to deal with before you, but you are going to want to take care of it sooner than later, never let an end game crisis/AFE snowball.

 

[PAnZuRiEL]

If you have 1500 forcelimit, why are you even worried about fallen empires awakening?

 

[Secret Master]

So now I'm 120 years into the game, I'm only using 400 out of my 1500 forcelimit and riding it close at 39.8k military power.

It sounds like you have a great empire. If I had a force limit of 1500, I'd be directly attacking the FE regardless of whether they wake up or not. Jump Drives aren't going to salvage themselves.

 

[rittstar]

I'm only using 400 out of my 1500 forcelimit and riding it close at 39.8k military power.

build up these unused 2/3 of your capacity and u break 120k which is enough, if one awake, its also not sure that they will go for you right after that, but you should be prepared, build a fortress flower in a system near them, if they come to attack you, bait them to that beautiful flower power with a single corvette, just visit their home system with that corvette and return to your flower, where your 120k fleet is waiting and enjoy the light show, maybe it will lag depending your rig


if you like what you enjoyed that way, go for the non awaken FE and do the same thing.. they will have only the half (or lesser) of that AFE fleetpower

 

[Jia Xu]

You should be able to easily smash any Fallen Empire at that size. In my last game, I went to war against one using a 90K fleet and I easily obliterated the FE's fleets. As long as your composition is good, you should have an easy time beating them too.

 

[The Founder]

Ever since 80 years into the game I've ran into the problem where I can't use my full force limit in a war because I read somewhere having 40k or more triggers AFE. So now I'm 120 years into the game, I'm only using 400 out of my 1500 forcelimit and riding it close at 39.8k military power.

Early on this wasn't a problem, but as my enemies grew from 3k to 4k to 6k, to now I am coming up against multiple enemy fleets of 10-12k, which when combined is bigger than my fleet. The way the AI likes to play hide and seek means I have to use 2 fleets of equal or greater strength to chase them down.

Wars are becoming a chore of carefully chosen sniping and grinding down their planets. How do you win wars at this point?

Here are the full rules:
http://www.stellariswiki.com/Fallen_empire#Awakened

The Primary trick? Federation and Vassals.
The Fleet Power check is per empire. And a Federation/Overlord has a rather low per Empire count, but a high total number. Indeed every report of a AFE getting stomped was due to Federations bottling them in.

Anther trick would be to just destory the FE Fleets. They will not awaken if thier Fleet Power is below 40k themself or they are at war. It is easy enough to get them to attack you (just Rivalry and Insult). Even if you conceede the war, all you will only be Humiliated and loose your Ruler.
And if you get all of them to declare on you, neither one will get Fleet reinforcements or be able to awaken unless they first end the war.

 

[EuropaCam]

Ever since 80 years into the game I've ran into the problem where I can't use my full force limit in a war because I read somewhere having 40k or more triggers AFE. So now I'm 120 years into the game, I'm only using 400 out of my 1500 forcelimit and riding it close at 39.8k military power.

Keep in mind that while having more than 40K fleet strength might awaken a FE, it doesn't *automatically* wake them up.

In my last game I started off with two FE neighbors: a Holy one to my northwest, and a Xenophobic one to my northeast. By the time the Xenophobic FE woke up, I already had 120K fleet strength and had just wiped out the Prethoryn Swarm. Amusingly, the first thing the Xenophobic/Jingoistic Reclaimer AE did was attack the (still sleeping) Holy FE. I was already rushing my ships back, so I declared war and caught the AE's fleets in a series of ambushes in the Holy FE's space [its borders were open since the Swarm event was still technically ongoing], and then began invading the AE in order to start the dismantling/vassalization process.

Now in my current game I'm up to about 60K fleet strength, and the Holy FE I'm aware of and the uncontacted FE on the other side of the map both seem unconcerned so far.

 

[Kvinfojoj]

Keep in mind that while having more than 40K fleet strength might awaken a FE, it doesn't *automatically* wake them up.

Tell me about it. I've been trying to trigger the FE's to awaken so that I can get the achievement. I'm at year 2400, I'm at 260k total fleet strength, just winding on fastest for the last 20 years but no awakening yet.

 

[The Founder]

Tell me about it. I've been trying to trigger the FE's to awaken so that I can get the achievement. I'm at year 2400, I'm at 260k total fleet strength, just winding on fastest for the last 20 years but no awakening yet.

Then you are eitehr not running 1.4 (wich has the awakening) or the loss of fleet prevents any of the FE's from awakening.

Also note that you do need Leviathan to actually get a war in heaven. Awakening is 1.4, war in heaven is 1.4+Leviathan.

 

[EuropaCam]

Also note that you do need Leviathan to actually get a war in heaven. Awakening is 1.4, war in heaven is 1.4+Leviathan.

He or she does have the Leviathans Story Pack icon under their screen name, so that shouldn't be it.

 

[Kvinfojoj]

Then you are eitehr not running 1.4 (wich has the awakening) or the loss of fleet prevents any of the FE's from awakening.

Also note that you do need Leviathan to actually get a war in heaven. Awakening is 1.4, war in heaven is 1.4+Leviathan.

I started the game a few days ago and I have Leviathans. I've had Awakenings happen before (triggered by killing another FE, so not quite the same). No idea what's up. I did do some quests for one of them earlier (stop another faction from researching AI, give a scientist), so maybe positive attitude could have some delaying effect.

 

[Insane Commander]

I'm at 114k now and none of them awoke yet. I've had high fleet capacity for a time, but my economy couldn't support it. I was waiting for 100k to attack the one on my border and the other nearby. But I started a war with a 85k fleet and after it I got Battleships and made it to 114k.

It's safer to prepare your fleet, risking awaking them than to keep it low and find yourself with a very powerful enemy without a proper fleet to fight it.

 

[ywxiao]

Wait so AFE only has about 100k fleet power? I read in a post a couple weeks ago someone was getting destroyed by an AFE fleet of over 300k.

If they are only 100kish I should be able to flatten them, my technology is really average though, I only have mostly tier 4 equipment because I'm such a massive empire with nearly 1000 pop. I started another tall game and I was at tier 5 some 60 years into the game, so I was afraid to fight at such a tech disadvantage.

 

[Shachza]

Wait so AFE only has about 100k fleet power? I read in a post a couple weeks ago someone was getting destroyed by an AFE fleet of over 300k.

If they are only 100kish I should be able to flatten them, my technology is really average though, I only have mostly tier 4 equipment because I'm such a massive empire with nearly 1000 pop. I started another tall game and I was at tier 5 some 60 years into the game, so I was afraid to fight at such a tech disadvantage.

Unawakened FE's generally have 2 or so fleets at 60k attack power each. With near 100k attack power, you should be able to stomp them. (1500 fleet cap should easily put you up near that number.) Awakened FE's will build up larger forces and begin eating empires that don't bow down before them, but even when they awaken, they still need to build those massive fleets. You can hit them before they do.

In my current game I'm rolling around 100k attack power and I started by chewing on the nearby Spiritualist FE because I wanted those holy worlds. In the process, a Materialist FE woke up. It quickly declared war on a nearby empire, and I immediately declared a preemptive war on it. It took two battles - one to soften them, and one to finish the job - but I crushed their fleet before they could eat anyone else and really get going.

 

[Secret Master]

Wait so AFE only has about 100k fleet power?

If the awakened empire has had a chance to expand, they might get more fleet power. Once they wake up, colonization and conquest are possibilities. In my current MP game, they have colonized until they met the xenophobic FE.

 

[ywxiao]

Unawakened FE's generally have 2 or so fleets at 60k attack power each. With near 100k attack power, you should be able to stomp them. (1500 fleet cap should easily put you up near that number.) Awakened FE's will build up larger forces and begin eating empires that don't bow down before them, but even when they awaken, they still need to build those massive fleets. You can hit them before they do.

In my current game I'm rolling around 100k attack power and I started by chewing on the nearby Spiritualist FE because I wanted those holy worlds. In the process, a Materialist FE woke up. It quickly declared war on a nearby empire, and I immediately declared a preemptive war on it. It took two battles - one to soften them, and one to finish the job - but I crushed their fleet before they could eat anyone else and really get going.

I see, I do have a Spiritual FE on my borders, but I can't see any Gaia worlds, maybe they are on the other side. I also border a Xenophile which saved my behind big time in a war so I won't touch them for the time being.

Problem is the other 2 FE are all the way on the other side of the map, with a dozen AI empires in between who are all in federations and all hate me for no reason.

If one of them awakens I don't know how I would get to them before it's too late. Any suggestions?

 

[Insane Commander]

On my first game I defeated an AE that had expanded to 20%-25% of the galaxy. I waited until its fleets were outside their territory fighting a war and I attacked several systems that they had conquered, at the same time. By blockading them I reached 100% warscore in 4 months. Then I took its capital and the best planets. They would not attack me so I could repeat this 4-5 times and take everything, but I started another game when 1.4 was released.

If they awake, build your fleet and wait until you can reach them. This strategy could work, if they don't attack you first. But you'll probably need to fight some wars to open borders.

In my current game I got lucky. I invaded the closest FE and after sometime one of the distant ones awoke. So now I can take the other one that is nearby. I will let the AE expand to try that strategy again, but I wouldn't mind seeing a War in Heaven. One way or another, I have the same problem with the closed borders as you. Everyone in the galaxy hates me, except the Blorg and the Xenophile FE that I just conquered.

 

[The Founder]

Wait so AFE only has about 100k fleet power? I read in a post a couple weeks ago someone was getting destroyed by an AFE fleet of over 300k.

aFE get free fleets from awakening.
And the ability to build new ships at scary speeds.
And maxed out resoruces, to keep those spaceports busy.
And thiere resource rich core systems.
And they might even get new ships from conquereing planets (I forgot).

 

[Shachza]

I see, I do have a Spiritual FE on my borders, but I can't see any Gaia worlds, maybe they are on the other side. I also border a Xenophile which saved my behind big time in a war so I won't touch them for the time being.

Problem is the other 2 FE are all the way on the other side of the map, with a dozen AI empires in between who are all in federations and all hate me for no reason.

If one of them awakens I don't know how I would get to them before it's too late. Any suggestions?

Getting to them is likely to be a problem until you have Jump Drives or Psi Jump Drives (which can come with their own problems) unless you conquer or ally your way closer. I'd say to just build up as strong as you can, do what you're going to do anyway, and keep an eye out. Like others have said, FEs are not guaranteed to awaken.

My current game is around the year 2390 (it's taken a while) and a second FE (the pacifists) just woke up. I'm not too worried since we're on good terms, they're pacifist, and I've got a sizable fleet on standby.