How do you deal with the ottomans?

[arosstheriver]

I've tried damned near everything. His level 2 forts are unassailable after hundreds of days even by siege 2 commanders with cannons (still -46%). Because of this, he can just singlehandedly waltz over to each and every ally that surrounds him and smash them to pieces.

And even in that one war that burned through all his manpower (read: he smashed his face so hard against my allies that he ran out of face...so he merced up and continued to try to smash his face against me), and I annihilated his navy, and took a province before he could engage me with mercs.

Within a few years' time, he's on full manpower, triple my troops, and doubled the navy that just crushed his, and roflstomped over us. Like...ok. I don't know what that's all about, nor how it was possibly done, but...

OK. Fine. New game. Just do what he does, and have a couple forts. He declares war. My forts basically fall immediately to leaderless stacks before the time of cannons. How?!

I even tried to fight that 10 stack, leaderless, that was on a highlands fort, with another 10 stack, but with a leader....and lost. Like. I didn't even remove a single regiment of his.

So.... I don't know what to do, and I look to the people who actually play this game for advice. I don't have cradle of civilization.

 

[IrishGirl]

This may be helpful (or it may not) but it's a thread I started awhile back when I wanted to take out the Ottomans. I was given some really good advice by others on the forum.

I can't take credit for it, though. It's their advice.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...an-empire-yeah-i-want-to-take-it-out.1050643/

 

[rinehime]

I've tried damned near everything. His level 2 forts are unassailable after hundreds of days even by siege 2 commanders with cannons (still -46%)..

This doesn't sound right. No one's that unlucky...

I presume you brought enough men to the siege? I think it's 6k troops for a level 2 fort (3k men per level). You want to have a bit more than that because of attrition and if you get a bad roll it will kill off some (5%) of the siege troops. Also note, that's men, not units and they can be of any type (inf/cav/art). There's an icon that pops up if you don't have enough men and you can check the siege status window for the number of men needed.

As for the Ottos, they get an ability in the first age that gives them faster sieges.

 

[Zephyrum]

A few more cannons, barrage-assault the forts in the bosphorus and occupy the five provinces if you've got the manpower/large navy for it can work. Then just blockade the straits. Make sure to do this while they are fighting someone on either side to lock them entirely.

The Ottomans remain very much beatable early on, but their snowball power - even if it was reduced in Cradle's patch - is what makes them powerful. Guarantee minors around them even if you don't join CtAs just to scare them away, and when you're comfortable, go all in on a defensive CtA.

 

[durbal]

You take them out early before they can run entire mercenary armies.

The latest patch has really made it clear how badly mercenaries need to be reworked. The game isn't fun when it's endless mercspam wars -- either you can mercspam and WC is a formality, or enemies can and you have to keep slogging through endless hordes of mercenaries to take some clay.

 

[Coffer]

They're much more mercspam-happy this patch, so as durbal says, you need to at least do some damage to them before they can get into that phase.

This doesn't sound right. No one's that unlucky...

Happened to me twice. Problem is, I was pitiful old Wallachia trying to exploit a brief moment of weakness on my own (Mamluks blockading them, allowing me to take Constantinople) early in the game without getting the chance to expand beforehand, not a major power actually able to go toe to toe with them, so I was expecting it. That's pretty unlucky.

 

[Balkri]

Just one question. With what country/nation are you playing right now?
There are different approach on how to deal with the Ottomans depending greatly from where are you attacking them.
Taking the balkan provinces and the coast of Ionia/asia minor will hurt their economy a lot, and reduce their force limits.

But independently from who are you playing. In the current war system you have to take them down fast or they will flood you with mercenaries. The AI will not care for their economy as long as they are at war with the player.
So the best way is to waith for cannons, build at least 3-4 in the army you are using to siege fortifications and save military points to use the barrage button. That will reduce the siege time a lot (don't assault the forts unless you have like 10-1 infantry vs garrison ratio)

If they have lv 2 forts you need 6 canons for the barrage.

In my case. I'm playing Byzantium. I managed to get an aliance with poland-lithuania and the mamluks, also Wallachia, and Austria decided to join to after I get a bit stronger. It took me 3 to 4 wars to destroy the Ottomans.

 

[rinehime]

I've tried damned near everything. His level 2 forts are unassailable after hundreds of days even by siege 2 commanders with cannons (still -46%).

This doesn't sound right. No one's that unlucky.

...
Happened to me twice.

I'm not saying it doesn't / can't happen, but staying at a -1 siege status for "hundreds of days" or even "after a few years" is pretty unlikely.

If he's around -46%, that's a -1 siege roll, which is actually closer to -43% (I'm assuming he was estimating). Let's say he's been sieging for 210 days (He said: "hundreds of days"). That's 7 siege ticks w/o modifiers.

The only way to start a -1 with a level 2 fort (-2 siege), 2 siege general (+2 siege), and arty is by bringing 1-3 arty(+1 siege) and it being a coastal fort w/ no blockade (-2 siege). That gives the -2 + -2 + 2 + 1 = -1 starting status. With -1, there's a 5/14 chance of not increasing status on a single tick (You need to roll at least a 6 on a d14-1 to increase status). Over 7 ticks, that's a (5/14)^7 = 0.074% chance of no increase in siege status. Even being extremely charitable with the definition of "hundreds" and assuming 100 days (3 ticks) , there's still a less than 4.6% chance of not increasing status. He says "within a few years time", so I have to think many more siege ticks have passed...

Given that he seems to be a new player and obviously didn't send a blockade (there was enough time for the Ottos to double his fleet????), my first inclination was that he didn't send enough troops to properly siege...

The merc-spam is a real (and debated) issue, but if he was sieging properly, from his story, it should have increased beyond a -1 status. Of course, the OP could also just be exaggerating the situation, and in that case, I say, git gud ;-) .

 

[ScytheV]

Funny how "Ottoman nerfed????" thread and good old "nerf Ottomans" thread are both in the top 3 right now...

 

[atwix]

if i really want to take out ottobro fast, i usually try to rival his allies (mamluks as islamic nation, poland+Hungary or Austria or aragon as christian) and be ready to no cb byzantium.

usually ottobro declares when you declared and then you vassalise byzantium and call in all your allies to defend them, triggering defensive war over your fresh vassal.

Then take all their forts in peace deal, done. Did that in my recent very hard BBB run. But as tiny nation near ottomans, this is unfeasible....

Basically hit them early, and if not, ally them or ally everybody that thates them.

But even then it can become really hard to block 'm from expanding...

 

[Coffer]

Funny how "Ottoman nerfed????" thread and good old "nerf Ottomans" thread are both in the top 3 right now...

Sounds like the truth is somewhere in the middle and there are many new factors from both the DLC and the patch coming into play which make them better in some ways and worse in others. Who knew?

 

[sigeena]

I really feel that Ottomans are significantly weaker since CoC, as they do not blob towards Eastern Anatolia as fast, due to stronger AQ and QQ and Mamluks

Going up against Ottomans during the Age of Discovery is especially challenging. They have that +33% to siege ability which means they tend be quicker at sieging down your forts. Fortunately, it usually ends by 1520 or so.

If you do not have superior army in terms of quality or quantity, then a superior navy is a must.

A superior Navy would allow you to transit between either side of the straits very fast. When playing Venice, I tend to siege down his Anatolian side of the straits first, as there's less attention there, and your allies are usually giving you enough fog of war to see where most of Otto's units are on the European side.

 

[arosstheriver]

By "a few year's time" I meant to say, "in a few years of peace.".

 

[TenshiN]

1) Be sure their troops are on the European side
2) Spam galleys & blockade
3) Occupy Biga
4)????????
5) Enjoy free warscore as their troops wander helplessly on the other side

 

[True_Heir_of_Rome]

The Ottoman AI tends to wield paper armies in the late game so you can always just wait until then to strike. Bulk up on Mil ideas and maybe take a policy or two, get the right adviser and go to town. As long as you are smart with your engagements and have a decent army comp they aren't that hard. Peace out for something small if you can't sustain the war, and the first time you can sit on them for years and drive them into bankruptcy.

 

[Vokasak]

According to the other thread all you have to do is install CoC and they'll melt like butter.

More realistically, unless you're in a position to strike extremely quickly (in the first ten years or so, preferably when the Ottos are already at war with Venice + Hungary or something), you're better off containing them rather than facing them directly, at least until the age of absolutism or so. By then, you'll have gotten stronger (hopefully), while they'll have gotten less so because of your containment (hopefully). In any case, fighting them in the age of discovery when they have their superior unit types and their age bonus to siege is a bad idea

 

[Amadeu of Savoy]

In my last game as Portugal, Ottomans became a problem since they allied with an aggressive Morocco mid-game. I dealt with them once I had enough money from colonies and trade (took me about 200 years) to challenge Spain. I then constantly supported rebels in the Transylvania area and allied to Russia and helped them fight Crimea. I even sent money to the Persia area countries to make Ottoman expansion eastwards more difficult. Only thing I couldn't prevent was their gradual conquest of Mameluks and half of Arabia, which took them 5 wars in 200 years.

 

[lststc315]

For Byzantium open against Otto:
There is a YouTuber BudgetMonk 119 has videos about Byzantium tactics against Otto 1.23. I used his tactics in my Byzantium compaign.
In short, AI will monthball forts (except capital) when you have no troops and fleet next to it in peace. So trick is: place all your troop in athen , transport one or two infra try to Constantinople at the end of month so they will arrive in the start of next month. Ally Albania to use Their GOD general and declare war. Move your troop to Macedonia and Izmit in first month. Since their garrison are 0 in first month. They will fall very soon. Then attach army to Albania and siege some other province to get war score. When you can make peace, take Edirne first( you have 2 forts and high score, so even you didn't siege Edirne you can take it in deal). Take whatever else as you can and the strait will be blocked. Then defeat them in the 2nd war.

 

[PoulsenB]

Attacking them on two fronts (e.g. having armies in the Balkans and in Egypt area) is a good idea since it makes Otto split their forces in half, which prevents them from waltzing in on your sieges with a 100k+ stack of troops. As long as your armies can hold off 40-50k stacks of Ottos while sieging their territory province after province you can win the war and take a good amount of land from them, it just takes some time.