Yup. Because I am in a bit of a pickle. Spiritualist egalitarian that also relies on foreigners as slaves/cheap labor something? Militatist? Pacifist? Won't free aliens become xenophilic and revolt if you used as cheap immigrant labor?
How Do You Cosplay Ancient Greece?
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Mechanically the only way to get slaves as a spiritualist egalitarian is to throw a bit of xenphobia on there.
Are you willing to roleplay your "Space Greeks" as being arrogant racial supremacists?
Are you willing to roleplay your "Space Greeks" as being arrogant racial supremacists?
Cosplay? Be naked.
Roleplay? I don't know. Politically the ancient greeks were all over the place. Compared to other ancient civilisations they can probably be considered materialist and egalitarian, by our modern western standards quite the opposite.
Roleplay? I don't know. Politically the ancient greeks were all over the place. Compared to other ancient civilisations they can probably be considered materialist and egalitarian, by our modern western standards quite the opposite.
Which Greeks is the real question. Spartans? Athenians? Thespians? They were all xenophobic considering most outsiders barbarians which allows slaves. They were in no way egalitarian, but an unrestricted democracy in Athens(Remember that Socrates was forced to kill himself after being found guilty of corrupting the youth) and a militaristic oligarchy in Sparta which had slaves and freemen who where not citizens. I suggest militaristic authoritarian and xenophobic with the possibility to substitute xenophobic with spiritualist with a democracy or oligarchy as government.
That's very... Unsubtle. Rather philosophical racial supremacists.
Xenophobic, Militarist and Materialist I'd say. Although you can swap the latter for Authoritarian if you like.
The Athenian democracy that people in the modern day like to idolise was the exception to the rule in ancient greek civilisation, most states were oligarchies or dictatorships so Egalitarian isnt a good fit at all.
The Athenian democracy that people in the modern day like to idolise was the exception to the rule in ancient greek civilisation, most states were oligarchies or dictatorships so Egalitarian isnt a good fit at all.
Non-fanatic Authoritarian, definitely. Ancient Greeks strongly believed in hierarchy. Liberty was not a universal right, it was a particular group's privilege. IIRC even in Athens most people were not citizens, and that included native-born Athenians (and if not a majority, then a very significant minority).
And militarist also applies. I think almost every Greek state had a strong martial tradition, and it's the best way of representing cultural xenophobia (such that you dislike foreign empires but are alright with assimilating their pops).
After that, it really depends on which Greek state you want to model. Sparta might be xenophobic, but I don't think any others would be - Greek was more a cultural than a racial identity, and large populations were assimilated into Hellenic identity over time.
Greeks were pioneers of science, math, and non-theistic philosophy, but the common people were, like most, strongly religious. So you could go either way for the last point, or even make them fanatic militarists (which might better represent Sparta than militarist + xenophobe).
And militarist also applies. I think almost every Greek state had a strong martial tradition, and it's the best way of representing cultural xenophobia (such that you dislike foreign empires but are alright with assimilating their pops).
After that, it really depends on which Greek state you want to model. Sparta might be xenophobic, but I don't think any others would be - Greek was more a cultural than a racial identity, and large populations were assimilated into Hellenic identity over time.
Greeks were pioneers of science, math, and non-theistic philosophy, but the common people were, like most, strongly religious. So you could go either way for the last point, or even make them fanatic militarists (which might better represent Sparta than militarist + xenophobe).
Traits: decadent and natural physicists are a given. Maybe communal and deviants.
Ethics: i would go with collectivism or better authoritarianism because the latter is a better fit. I don't think materialism or spiritualism are a fit because ancient Greek culture had both kinda. Maybe militarism?
Government: there are precedents of democracy, dictatorship and monarchy so that depends on what you want.
Ethics: i would go with collectivism or better authoritarianism because the latter is a better fit. I don't think materialism or spiritualism are a fit because ancient Greek culture had both kinda. Maybe militarism?
Government: there are precedents of democracy, dictatorship and monarchy so that depends on what you want.
Well, imho people like to idolize a lot of stupid things from ancient history. I don't even know why everyone likes democracy that much, because at the end of the day it doesn't really work. Either because it gets corrupted or... Well, Trump gets elected, lol. Science directorate would be better I say, because it is made from educated people from jobs that mean more than mere money-making. Or maybe science-democracy? Oh well.
Tl;dr: Collectivist / Militarist / Xenophobe
I study history and finished a seminar paper two days ago about the first attic sea-alliance and their colonies in 5th century b.c. . I will summarize what the Athenians did in game terms:
After the Persian Invasion endgame crisis hit the greek galaxy, the Spartans united the greek empires into a great federation in order to repel the Persian Scourge. When the Persians were defeated and only some minor empires were left under their control, the Athenians faked an insult from the Spartans to everyone else, so that they could form a new federation under their leadership. Every member had to give ships to or subsidize the federation fleet under the rule of Athens.
The first planet was selected for liberation, but the Athenians seized it, enslaved the whole population and resettled their main species onto the newly conquered world. Every member of the federation that left because of border friction or warmongering against their own goals were defeated by the federation fleet and became a tributary of the Athenians. Each colony, that was founded by Athens with help from the federation, had to subjugate / drive off the native population first. New colonies had the task to enlargen the empire border and economy and to give jobs to citizens so that they can earn enough money to become soldiers.
So in my opinion Athens was a textbook Hegemonic Imperialists (Collectivist/Militarist/Xenophobe).
I study history and finished a seminar paper two days ago about the first attic sea-alliance and their colonies in 5th century b.c. . I will summarize what the Athenians did in game terms:
After the Persian Invasion endgame crisis hit the greek galaxy, the Spartans united the greek empires into a great federation in order to repel the Persian Scourge. When the Persians were defeated and only some minor empires were left under their control, the Athenians faked an insult from the Spartans to everyone else, so that they could form a new federation under their leadership. Every member had to give ships to or subsidize the federation fleet under the rule of Athens.
The first planet was selected for liberation, but the Athenians seized it, enslaved the whole population and resettled their main species onto the newly conquered world. Every member of the federation that left because of border friction or warmongering against their own goals were defeated by the federation fleet and became a tributary of the Athenians. Each colony, that was founded by Athens with help from the federation, had to subjugate / drive off the native population first. New colonies had the task to enlargen the empire border and economy and to give jobs to citizens so that they can earn enough money to become soldiers.
So in my opinion Athens was a textbook Hegemonic Imperialists (Collectivist/Militarist/Xenophobe).
In my experience a goverment run by scientists would not really be any less dysfunctional that the current set up.
The point of democracy is not that it stops bad government, but that it allows people to change the government if they don't like it. That fact alone makes it better than any other form of rule.
If theoretically democracy is true then yes. But more often than not, if bad guys make it to the top, they won't let it go easily and all voting papers childsplay is no match for a couple of bribes and connections. That's how we get the same pathetic thieves in suits who don't even know how to govern 'democratically elected' over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.
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The Athenian democracy wasn't so great either. Only 10-20% of the population fulfilled the criteria to be allowed to vote. It's only because of the huge population of the city that this amounted to a large number of participants.
That's the whole point! Perfect society on the backs of thousands of slaves!
BTW, can I get the game to recognize Greek letters?
For some reason 1st Ψ-Division looks more badass than 1st Psi-Division.
For some reason 1st Ψ-Division looks more badass than 1st Psi-Division.
Either oligarchy or democracy. But yes, it would, because you would put your entire life into a job that isn't precisely money-making only for a chance to get elected. It will not remove the issue, because humans suck, but at least corruption won't be an obligatory trait of any imaginable thing even remotely related to governing.
I wouldn't call it obligatory in democracies either, and you seem work on the assumption that scientists are by nature altruists and more capable of understanding how a country works than anyone else.
Anyway this is steering off-topic and closer to real life issues than the mods would probably like (mayby we should discuss it on the OT-forum) so in regards to the greeks they should probably be xenophobes, militarists and materialists (at least for their time). They had some pretty bad racial laws and you need either xenophobia or collectivism to have slavery while they were incredibly warlike and faught amongst themselves and others quite a lot. At the same time they had quite a few secular people for the ancient world (problem is that everything is relative) and to some extent even saw their philosophy as an alternative to religion.