How do you beat the AI's jump drive cheese?

[Adrik Thorsen]

I play a wormhole/jump drive empire usually. The AI isn't ever really a threat. Corvette Doomswarms with evasion admiral and psionic combat modules can reach 100% evasion. Not like that's bugged or anything....

 

[catnipaddict]

I just don't understand how they can jump from one end of my empire to the other in an instant. I literally mean in an instant. The area my empire occupies is 1/4 of a 1000 size map so how did that ai jump so far from the south end to the north end of my empire

 

[Badpojken]

What I do to catch enemy fleets in my territory is the minute they are in sensor range I pause and klick the enemy fleet to check where they are going, then I head to that system with my fleets.
There is little to no chance of catching an enemy navy if you just set your fleet to attack theirs as it will always be jumps behind them.
Some other tips:
If an enemy retreats, immediately go to the system they fled to and you can finish the battle.
If the enemy is using wormholes, destroy their wormhole stations to strand the fleet, incredibly easy to kill em after that.
This one is important, research those ftl techs!!!
If all else fails, go for the jugular, attack their home systems, that usually stops the as raiding and they will come for a proper fight

 

[catnipaddict]

but how can they just jump across half a 1000 size map in one jump and then just retreat in an instant while within my snare aoe

 

[grommile]

I just don't understand how they can jump from one end of my empire to the other in an instant. I literally mean in an instant. The area my empire occupies is 1/4 of a 1000 size map so how did that ai jump so far from the south end to the north end of my empire

Level three wormhole drive has a very large range, and wormhole transit is instant.

 

[catnipaddict]

level 3 wormhole drive? do you mean the passive research upgrades or is it a component I have to research and put into my design

 

[seamus2008]

By massively buffing defense stations.

 

[Erei]

I'll give you one tip, that I think wasn't mentioned. The other tip was mentioned "ignore them and focus on taking the capital".

Anyway, it works extremely well if you have wormhole tech, vs a non wormhole tech (especially warp). Close range weaponry is an added bonus. I use it mostly against FE because it is EXTREMELY powerful against them.

"Fake" attack a fleet that outnumber you. Let's call that fleet "Redshirts". Make this fleet rather small, and attack some insignificant target, like a mine station or even their homeworld, it should pull the enemy fleet, if they are superior in numbers. After some pew pew, retreat. If you are a wormhole based FTL, you will retreat to the last system you jumped from. The enemy will follow you because they have the EU4 "I'm gonna wipe this fleet" syndrome. Now, that's where the fun come in, have a massive fleet right next to the triangle thing or the direction of the system you sent your Redshirts in.

Now, that's what is fun, you will immediately engage the fleet, and if they are warp based, they'll even be frozen for some time (this stuff should be removed). Using FTL inhibitor is cherry on top.
Since you used a smaller fleet, the allies should not have followed, and should be part of the trap.


It is a VERY powerful way to negate the MASSIVE range bonus from the Fallen Empire. They will follow your fleet if they fought for some time. It's kinda lame to exploit the AI, but truth be told, the fake retreat have been used so many times in real battle, it makes sense as a valid tactic.

 

[Dnote]

Destroy his space stations, when his force limit starts to drop he will retreat to defend them.

The best defense is a good offense, this is very true in Stellaris.

 

[Mylor]

Wormhole upgrades are research upgrades and the engine stays the same, just the range is increased +50% each time. Jump drive is a different engine and ships need to be equipped with it.

 

[Wessi]

There would be rather simple fix for this. Slow down enemy fleets in enemy territory so that you can actually catch them. Even more so when enemy fleets are nearby.

 

[Deathwatch]

Well, that's wormhole drive for you. Wormholes have the range to go very far, instant transit, not restricted to lanes, and only have one drawback : its wormhole station could be destroyed. If you are attacked by a wormhole fleet, instead of chasing them, try to destroy their wormhole stations. Without wormhole stations, wormhole fleets could not make a jump. Wormhole fleets are really the best FTL in Stellaris at this moment, but they do have an Achilles hell : their stations. Go for the stations.

As for hyperlanes, they are also good, far better than warp jump. But complaining that wormhole allows your enemy to bypasses your hyperlane stronghold is wrong, because that's how the game is made : multiple choices of FTL. Hyperlane chokepoints could be skipped by wormhole and warp fleets, so creating hyperlane chokepoints will only defeat hyperlane empires.

What could be done, like other have said, is to split your fleet. One for offense, and another one for raiding. 2nd fleet should find those pesky wormhole stations, or play defense.

 

[Wessi]

Still it's undisputable that the current system has to be changed. It's just like in Armada 2 where you could turn on your warp drive and warp past every defense station or fleets with virtually no losses.

 

[Dnote]

Also, whilst you may not like building defensive stations, with the right module attached to them the wormhole fleet will jump into that location in the system, so you can entrap them. Best location is near the sun, that way to get out of the system again they have to travel to the edge of the gravity well.

If you are hyperlanes FTL, then you can definitely reach them very quickly, quick enough to engage them.

Wormhole may seems like it has an advantage in it's freedom of movement, but as someone who plays it a lot, I actually find that hyperlanes is the hardest to deal with, once they get moving it is really hard to stop them if you can't see the hyperlanes themselves.

 

[TenshiN]

Build a defense station with a snare and make your fleet wait in a neighbouring system. Enemy moves in a system with station -> you also move in, engage, wipe out. EZ, the AI is pretty stupid when you find out how you can abuse it.

 

[Cauldyth]

Thus the game turns into who can wreck stuff on the other side quicker to try and drive up war score. Imagine World War I, but instead of actually fighting each other both armies charge past one another to trash their respective home countries in a drunken binge.

I think people are making the incorrect comparison. WWI was a land war, space is a naval war. A better analogy is the Pacific Theatre in WW2. The goal was to trash the enemy's fleet, while simultaneously nailing their territories randomly and without warning. There was no frontline, and while any individual island could be fortified, the enemy could just sail past it if they wanted and hit somewhere else, including deep in the enemy's territory.

The Doolittle Raid happened only 5 months into the US's involvement in the war, but it involved them bombing Japan's capital - all while Japan held territory all over the Pacific. The ocean is vast. Space is vast beyond comprehension.

 

[X3KJ]

invade their home planets, or at least, put a large fleet in them. They'll usually retreat in order to defend them, and you can often catch them in a pincer movement.

Look as well, in your own systems, to see if there's any of their wormhole stations. If so, detail a fleet to clear those out.

lategame (psi) jumpdrive doesn't need wormhole stations and can jump large distances
Also, the obsession of the AI with homeworlds is a pretty lame exploit imo. If it's a giant empire what do they care if one of their 70 worlds (that even only has 16 tiles usually) is under attack, when they could instead cause real carnage on the enemy? If they attack, they usually attack YOUR homeworld - which makes it super easy to trap them / rebuild your fleet and smash them. In one case my enemy neighbour attack me, and beelined for my homeworld with his much stronger fleet. My emprie was stretched really long, and they had to go through many sectors. So i just evaded with the small fleet i had, built up ships in the other systems and then smashed them for easy victory. At the time it was a great feeling, but seeing now that this is their most commonly used modus operandi, it's just boring.

 

[Jelbert]

People talk about tanky stations, but I would prefer the ability to build tanky star systems.

Maybe this exists in game now, I have not really experimented with it.

This would mean building multiple stations in a system that would take take considerable time to destroy trapping any blob fleet in the process.

This would mean that if the opfor concentrates his forces to much they will be tied down leaving you free to manoeuvre, unless of course he has deployed the same tactic.

I would like to see defence stations that were relatively cheap to build/run but took a long time to build, this way you would have gradual wars of attrition as you attempted to chip your way into the enemies core worlds, always worrying about being tied down and having to think strategically even if you have the superior fleet which is for me the main problem.

If you have a smaller fleet, yes the game can be strategic, if you have the larger fleet its just a case of attack enemy HW, invade, they surrender.

 

[Dnote]

I think people are making the incorrect comparison. WWI was a land war, space is a naval war. A better analogy is the Pacific Theatre in WW2. The goal was to trash the enemy's fleet, while simultaneously nailing their territories randomly and without warning. There was no frontline, and while any individual island could be fortified, the enemy could just sail past it if they wanted and hit somewhere else, including deep in the enemy's territory.

The Doolittle Raid happened only 5 months into the US's involvement in the war, but it involved them bombing Japan's capital - all while Japan held territory all over the Pacific. The ocean is vast. Space is vast beyond comprehension.

On that note, I think supply lines could add a lot to Stellaris' wars.

 

[Jelbert]

I think people are making the incorrect comparison. WWI was a land war, space is a naval war. A better analogy is the Pacific Theatre in WW2. The goal was to trash the enemy's fleet, while simultaneously nailing their territories randomly and without warning. There was no frontline, and while any individual island could be fortified, the enemy could just sail past it if they wanted and hit somewhere else, including deep in the enemy's territory.

The Doolittle Raid happened only 5 months into the US's involvement in the war, but it involved them bombing Japan's capital - all while Japan held territory all over the Pacific. The ocean is vast. Space is vast beyond comprehension.

This would be true if there was any Space in Stellaris, it might sound strange to say, but there is not.

All there is is the small amount of space containing the planetary system, the rest of space does not exist in Stellaris, nothing happens in it, it is just something you pass through.

So to use your example, all that can happen in Stellaris is war around each island/land mass, the open sea does not exist as place combat can occur.