How do we choose which nations' monarchs have which title?

[unmerged(37697)]

...despite being the same (or similar) government type.

For example, nations such as Burgundy, Brittany and Normandy should have dukes, whereas - for example - England, France and Scotland should have kings. Of course, these nations will all be forms of monarchy. So, how does the game choose which title they would have?

I remember Johan saying that there would be plenty of titles, such as Doge, Pope, President, etc. This is of course fantastic, but presumably these will be government-type-specific. A theocracy (ala the Papacy) would be run by a Pope, a Merchant Republic a Doge, and as I shall mod in ASAP, a Commonwealth by a Lord Protector

We haven't seen all the government types, but I just wanted to make sure that we have Duke Charles of Burgundy, and not King Charles of Burgundy

 

[Registered]

If you look in the log of this screenshot you'll see a king coming to power in Brabant (a Duchy). This one has a king in Banten (a sultanate). So either the game will not differentiate between titles. Or (and this i hope) that part of the game has/had not been coded yet.

 

[unmerged(37697)]

If you look in the log of this screenshot you'll see a king coming to power in Brabant (a Duchy). This one has a king in Banten (a sultanate). So either the game will not differentiate between titles. Or (and this i hope) that part of the game has/had not been coded yet.

Yeah, I saw those screenshots. I hope to God that the Ottomans don't get kings, that's for sure :wacko:

Bur Johan definitely did mention something about different titles for different types of ruler; I'll find the screenshot and link you to it here.

I want to see a multitude of different rulers, from dukes and counts to kings and queens and sultans and emperors and even lord protectors

I certainly don't want to see King Mary or King Elizabeth. From monarch files, it would (presumably) be very difficult for the game to distinguish between male & female rulers. Thus, I am fairly certain Paradox will have some form of system in place in order to label them correctly.

No doubt said system is also in place for other titles

 

[Registered]

Bur Johan definitely did mention something about different titles for different types of ruler; I'll find the screenshot and link you to it here.

There's a Stadtholder in the second link i posted.

 

[unmerged(37697)]

There's a Stadtholder in the second link i posted.

Yes, which (AFAIK) is a Netherlands-specific monarch title. This gives me hope for the inclusion of Lord Protector

Here's the post I spoke of, by the way:

yes

and titles of the ruler depend entirely on government form..

like "Archbishop", "Pope", "King, "Prince", "Doge" and even "President"

This is what my original post was based on; so I'm glad I found the quote!

As a result, Archbishoprics such as Trier should have their correct title, and I'd be very surprised if duke and count and so on were to be left out, let alone sultan.

Still, some confirmation (and possibly a screenshot) would be lovely

 

[Registered]

Yes, which (AFAIK) is a Netherlands-specific monarch title. This gives me hope for the inclusion of Lord Protector

Gotland ain't in the Netherlands.
So it's probably government type specific.

 

[unmerged(37697)]

Gotland ain't in the Netherlands.
So it's probably government type specific.

Indeed; there's this one also:

That must indeed be a government type title.

There are several monarchy types, including feudal, constitutional, administrative and despotic. I wonder if titles will differ between these...

I will make an educated guess and assume that dukedom is a government type

 

[Tunch Khan]

yes

and titles of the ruler depend entirely on government form..

like "Archbishop", "Pope", "King, "Prince", "Doge" and even "President"

also like "Sultan", "Shah", "Bey", "Emir", "Caliph", "Khan", "Sheik" and even "Reis-i Cumhur"...

 

[unmerged(37697)]

also like "Sultan", "Shah", "Bey", "Emir", "Caliph", "Khan", "Sheik" and even "Reis-i Cumhur"...

I hope so, Tunch!

I love the idea of expanding my duchy of Burgundy and on Christmas Day (with the Emperor's consent, obviously) declaring the kingdom of Burgundy, by changing government type to feudal monarchy.

This would (presumably) change my ruler's title from duke to king, as well as change my domestic sliders, as well as relations with other duchies & monarchies.

I read in one of the previews that there were something like seventeen (if memory recalls) government types. Now, AFAIK we've only seen about five or six - so, the future's bright

 

[Tunch Khan]

I hope so, Tunch!

I love the idea of expanding my duchy of Burgundy and on Christmas Day (with the Emperor's consent, obviously) declaring the kingdom of Burgundy, by changing government type to feudal monarchy.

This would (presumably) change my ruler's title from duke to king, as well as change my domestic sliders, as well as relations with other duchies & monarchies.

I read in one of the previews that there were something like seventeen (if memory recalls) government types. Now, AFAIK we've only seen about five or six - so, the future's bright

But wouldn't you need the approval of the Pope for the recognition of your Kingdom? It may not be so memorable but even for the Ottomans, it was the Caliph in Cairo who appointed the Bey as Sultan after numerous conquests. I believe it was Murat I Hudavendigar or Beyazid I theThunderbolt who used the title Sultan first. Before that, Osman and Orhan were both Beys and simply referred as Osman Ghazi and Orhan Ghazi (as they were veterans of religious war).

 

[unmerged(37697)]

But wouldn't you need the approval of the Pope for the recognition of your Kingdom? It may not be so memorable but even for the Ottomans, it was the Caliph in Cairo who appointed the Bey as Sultan after numerous conquests. I believe it was Murat I Hudavendigar or Beyazid I theThunderbolt who used the title Sultan first. Before that, Osman and Orhan were both Beys and simply referred as Osman Ghazi and Orhan Ghazi (as they were veterans of religious war).

Well, technically I would suppose yes, but I think in game terms it'll just be a case of a player being able to change government types with stability drops and what have you. However, with the complex (and intelligent?) new event system, it would be fantastic if Papal consent was required to jump from a dukedom to a kingdom

 

[unmerged(37697)]

Yes, I thought it was seventeen

Europa Universalis III features new forms of government (17 at the present) that grant different bonuses and allow you to change domestic policies at specific rates.

You can read the whole preview here .

 

[Mad King James]

I concur, however:
There was more than one kind of feudal state, and each was different more than just a title.

Frontier Vassal: A state set up as an effective buffer zone between the mother country, the center of civilization, or whatever. Effectively a military frontier. The various marches (Scottish, Welsh marches, Brandenburg, Marche, etc) were all set up to be more effective military machines than ordinary counties, and the ruler was granted special powers in order to defend the frontier that other counties were barred from possessing (the king kept that authority for himself).
Has almost the same level of state control as a king, but not the prestige. Ruler titles: Christians: Marquis, Moslems: Ghazi.

Vassal: A state set up to govern a territory on behalf of a king, with various limitations on the power and authority of the Count. The Count of a County has very little power, and the cities, towns and local aristocrats can easily deflect his will. Christians: Count (in England: Earl, in Germany: Baron), Moslems: Sheikh

Tribal Vassal: A vassal created by a king, but ordered along ancient ethnic or regional lines for its authority. These tend to be more powerful within this ethnoregional area than an ordinary vassal state. Christian: Duke, Moslem: Bey.

Palatine Vassal: A county set up with special added prestige in order to offset other powerful vassals of the king. Christians: Count-Palatine, Moslems: Sharif

Royal Vassal: This Tribal Vassal is set above other dukes so that its authority is more akin to a king than a duke. Christians: Archduke, Moslems: Khedive

Viceroyal Vassal: This Administrative vassal is set above other govenors so that it's authority is more akin to a king than a govenor. Christians: Viceroy, Moslems: Pasha.

Administrative Vassal: This official is appointed by the king to his post, and is entirely dependant upon him for his authority. Christians: Govenor, Moslems: Wali.

Military Vassal: This vassal is an appointed military commander who rules his territory as a govenor. This is highly advantageous in terms of military strength but has long-term problems. Various names: Moslem: Sanjak-bey, Bulgarian, Czech, Polish, Russian, Lithuanian, Serbian & Romanian: Viovode, Croatian, Bosnian, Slovenian & Hungarian: Ban.

Despotic Monarchy: An independent state based on absolute power of the ruler and force of arms. Orthadox: Despot, others: Prince, Moslems: Emir

Sanctified Monarchy: The religious authorities have declared this ruler Gods Representative for secular matters (or even an actual god). Christian: Caesar, Moslems: Caliph, others: Divine Emperor

Tribal Monarchy: The monarch is the leader of a people (as in "The French" or "The Germans"), and his authority is derived therein. Most of the time this is a King, except Turkic peoples who are ruled by a Khan.

Absolute Monarchy: This monarch IS the state, the supreme and sole source of all authority. Christians, others: Emperor, Moslems: Sultan.

 

[Rotten Venetic]

The frontier vassal is not a separate state unless the centralized government is busted. Otherwise it is called a march, it is a military district and it is ruled by a margrave.

 

[Mad King James]

The frontier vassal is not a separate state unless the centralized government is busted. Otherwise it is called a march, it is a military district and it is ruled by a margrave.

Did I say otherwise?
I couldn't decide whether to use the Germanic Margrave or the latin Marquis, but there seemed to be more Marqueses than Margraves, so I used the latter.

 

[Rotten Venetic]

...but the margrave/marquis does not qualify for a state's ruler - which is what this thread at least seems to be about. That's why I tried to clarify the whole thing. And if a march rebelled, the leader would likely assume a new title (duke or even king) and would almost always be hostile to his former overlord.

 

[unmerged(10971)]

...but the margrave/marquis does not qualify for a state's ruler

Baden and Brandenburg, amongst others, would beg to differ.

 

[unmerged(59737)]

Guys; this isn’t CK2. The actual title is just easily editable flavor, It makes no contribution to the game. It doesn’t really matter whether the ruler of Brandenburg is called a Margrave, Count, Duke, Elector etc…

 

[Rotten Venetic]

Weren't they duchies as well, or principalities? I think Brandenburg was a duchy at some point then it merged with east prussia into Kingdom of Prussia... but for the rest I can't tell.

And it DOES matter because prestige will be important to the game and a bigger title or more titles would increase it heavily.

 

[Havard]

We could call them all "Ruler"...