Playing as Georgia makes alliances very important...but I hate all the people around me, help?
How do I increase MY relations with another country?
- Thread starter Snall
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Royal marriage (works for same religion). +25
Ask for military access. +10
Rival their rivals. +20 (after a duration of 20 months)
Don't fabricate claims. This gives both a "has a claim" and "has a cb" malus to relations.
Ask for military access. +10
Rival their rivals. +20 (after a duration of 20 months)
Don't fabricate claims. This gives both a "has a claim" and "has a cb" malus to relations.
Problem is that Georgia is surrounded by muslim nations that get border friction and wrong religion malus.
Muscowy is probably your best bet, try to hold out till they are all powerful Russia and let them help you cleanse the holy cities of the infidel
Muscowy is probably your best bet, try to hold out till they are all powerful Russia and let them help you cleanse the holy cities of the infidel
I thought about that Bibor, it says I cant (This is my first game). I have taken a couple provinces (somehow) from the Muslims to my south and have held on but I just had a horrible series of wars that left me whole but in crazy debt (but I am allied with Lithuania and Poland) and I am scared...
Also give them War Subsidies, if they're at war, for another +15.
You can easily increase +45 of your relations to them:
+10 Get MA
+20 Enemy of Enemy, after 20 months
+15 War Subsidies, when they're at war
= +45
This is enough to get an alliance with a Competing Great Power who is of Different Religion (total -35), without them having Improved Relations with you. In fact you don't even need to give the MA to do that, just Enemy of Enemy and War Subsidies is enough. You can use MA to top it up if you don't want to wait the full 20 months for Enemy of Enemy.
There's another bonus of +25 if you can get At War Together. Obvioulsy that's more work, as you do actually have to go to war together, and you don't have an alliance to make it easy.
For example, you want to ally Mamluks. Mamluks are allied to Ottomans, and Ottomans were attacked by Austria, and Mamluks joined that defensive war. Boost the Ottoman's opinion of you to +100, via the normal Improved Relations/Gift/Guarantee/War Subsidies/Enemy of Enemy. Then Enforce Peace on Austria, on the side of Ottomans. They will always refuse to accept the Enforced Peace, meaning it will inject you into the war against Austria, on the side of Ottomans and Mamluks. This instantly gets you at least another +25 with both Mamlukes and Ottomans for "Being in war together", which will be enough to get the alliance before the war ends. You can then also get some other bonuses like "Defended Our Territory" (+10) - just by killing enemies who are in a Mamluk's province. There's another bonus of +10 or so if you re-siege a Mamluks province that's fallen to the enemy.
However that's all quite a lot of work, and only necessary if you have more than -45 to overcome, e.g. due to Neighbouring Heretic or a past Dishonoured Alliance or something. In my example there, it would be a lot easier and quicker and safer just to give War Subsidies.
You can give any amount of War Subsidies, including 0.00/month, and still get the full +15 relations boost to both sides of the relationship.
You can easily increase +45 of your relations to them:
+10 Get MA
+20 Enemy of Enemy, after 20 months
+15 War Subsidies, when they're at war
= +45
This is enough to get an alliance with a Competing Great Power who is of Different Religion (total -35), without them having Improved Relations with you. In fact you don't even need to give the MA to do that, just Enemy of Enemy and War Subsidies is enough. You can use MA to top it up if you don't want to wait the full 20 months for Enemy of Enemy.
There's another bonus of +25 if you can get At War Together. Obvioulsy that's more work, as you do actually have to go to war together, and you don't have an alliance to make it easy.
For example, you want to ally Mamluks. Mamluks are allied to Ottomans, and Ottomans were attacked by Austria, and Mamluks joined that defensive war. Boost the Ottoman's opinion of you to +100, via the normal Improved Relations/Gift/Guarantee/War Subsidies/Enemy of Enemy. Then Enforce Peace on Austria, on the side of Ottomans. They will always refuse to accept the Enforced Peace, meaning it will inject you into the war against Austria, on the side of Ottomans and Mamluks. This instantly gets you at least another +25 with both Mamlukes and Ottomans for "Being in war together", which will be enough to get the alliance before the war ends. You can then also get some other bonuses like "Defended Our Territory" (+10) - just by killing enemies who are in a Mamluk's province. There's another bonus of +10 or so if you re-siege a Mamluks province that's fallen to the enemy.
However that's all quite a lot of work, and only necessary if you have more than -45 to overcome, e.g. due to Neighbouring Heretic or a past Dishonoured Alliance or something. In my example there, it would be a lot easier and quicker and safer just to give War Subsidies.
You can give any amount of War Subsidies, including 0.00/month, and still get the full +15 relations boost to both sides of the relationship.
For making allies best works enemy of enemy + little improve relation, AI will go friendly to you soon after.
Georgia probably shouldn't be your first game. It is an extremely challenging situation. Don't get me wrong, but I'd suggest a more beginner-friendly nation as your first try.
Regarding the war subsidies: I don't know if that's going to be helpful. Georgia's economy is pitiful to maintain its army already anyways. The only effecive way to stop the Hordes (Aq/Qara/Crimea) from DoW'ing is either getting a royal marriage with them, or being allied to a much more powerful nation. Neither option works for Georgia, unless it converts. Muscovy is too far to be effective ally in the early game.
You cannot convert to Sunni unless 1. Sunni rebels succeeded occupying at least one province AND 2. Sunni is your majority religion. That means either you need more Sunni provinces, or you let the rebels convert your original provinces.
Trigger Sunni zealots. Send a missionary to a Sunni province and set the missionary maintenance on the Economy screen to 0%. That way, you can deliberately raise the religious revolt risk in the province without converting it to Orthodox. Once the rebels rise, don't fight them. They will attempt to siege the Sunni province(s) and move onto other provinces that you have. If you let (for example) Kartli fall to them, Kartli will become Sunni.
It may take a few different series of revolts to make Sunni your majority religion, but once they do, you can accept the rebel demand and convert yourself to Sunni - not from the religion screen, but stability screen where you handle the rebels. The same can be done to convert to other religions, like a player may deliberately try to make an Orthodox Ottoman Empire this way. (In case someone points out, the only nation immune to rebel conversion is Japan.)
However.. you'll be left really vulnerable in the mean time. In my Candar game (presumably that's what you conquered, right?
That is a good move, because Candar has difficulties finding decent allies: it has "historical rival" malus -25 with Crimea, Ottomans and Mamluks.) I vassalized Georgia and Aq Qoyunlu, Qara Qoyunlu and Crimea took turns to invade Georgia, with their Horde CB.
Regarding the war subsidies: I don't know if that's going to be helpful. Georgia's economy is pitiful to maintain its army already anyways. The only effecive way to stop the Hordes (Aq/Qara/Crimea) from DoW'ing is either getting a royal marriage with them, or being allied to a much more powerful nation. Neither option works for Georgia, unless it converts. Muscovy is too far to be effective ally in the early game.
You cannot convert to Sunni unless 1. Sunni rebels succeeded occupying at least one province AND 2. Sunni is your majority religion. That means either you need more Sunni provinces, or you let the rebels convert your original provinces.
Trigger Sunni zealots. Send a missionary to a Sunni province and set the missionary maintenance on the Economy screen to 0%. That way, you can deliberately raise the religious revolt risk in the province without converting it to Orthodox. Once the rebels rise, don't fight them. They will attempt to siege the Sunni province(s) and move onto other provinces that you have. If you let (for example) Kartli fall to them, Kartli will become Sunni.
It may take a few different series of revolts to make Sunni your majority religion, but once they do, you can accept the rebel demand and convert yourself to Sunni - not from the religion screen, but stability screen where you handle the rebels. The same can be done to convert to other religions, like a player may deliberately try to make an Orthodox Ottoman Empire this way. (In case someone points out, the only nation immune to rebel conversion is Japan.)
However.. you'll be left really vulnerable in the mean time. In my Candar game (presumably that's what you conquered, right?
That is a good move, because Candar has difficulties finding decent allies: it has "historical rival" malus -25 with Crimea, Ottomans and Mamluks.) I vassalized Georgia and Aq Qoyunlu, Qara Qoyunlu and Crimea took turns to invade Georgia, with their Horde CB.
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Re cost of war subsidies, you must have missed where I said you can give any amount and still get +15.
Any amount includes 0.00/month
If that's too cheaty, give one tick which will be 1% of your monthly income. So its relative to your financial situation and always affordable.
Any amount includes 0.00/month
If that's too cheaty, give one tick which will be 1% of your monthly income. So its relative to your financial situation and always affordable.
Re cost of war subsidies, you must have missed where I said you can give any amount and still get +15.
Any amount includes 0.00/month
If that's too cheaty, give one tick which will be 1% of your monthly income. So its relative to your financial situation and always affordable.
Thanks. I'll use it more often in my games from now on.
Your opinion of them:
+10 for asking passage through their lands (and them agreeing)
+10 for them giving you fleet basing rights (gotta check this one)
+20 for Enemy of Enemy (after 20 months)
+15 for subsidies
That's +55.
+10 for asking passage through their lands (and them agreeing)
+10 for them giving you fleet basing rights (gotta check this one)
+20 for Enemy of Enemy (after 20 months)
+15 for subsidies
That's +55.
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No, he's right. I always forget that one, because it requires pretty high relations to achieve and usually by the time I have enough relations to get FB, I've been able to boost my opinion enough to not need it (and not want to pay for it.)
Plus, cancelling FB gives you -5 Distrust for two years, which is a pain.
But yeah, if you need +55 and can get FB, it works.
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Oh, so does cancelling Military Access I just noticed!
So this should be considered if you ever plan to DipVassalise a nation - or at least, if you hope to in the next two years. Don't take and then cancel MA or FB, else you'll get -5 Distrust per occasion; -10 if you cancel both. And due to a bug, Distrust currently counts double against diplomatic actions, so cancelling both and getting -10 counts -20 and could well be enough to block a DipVassalisation or even a RM.
The stack, too. Take MA and cancel it twice and that's -10 Distrust. There have been a few times when I've taken MA and cancelled it and taken it and cancelled it repeatedly, to minimise DipRel usage. I'll have to start thinking twice about doing that.
Fortunately each -5 Distrust appears to have a two year expiry, so it's not too long to wait for it to go.
Is it just me, or is this needlessly complicated? I understand my glorious peoples hating other, inferior European states, but can't I just spread the word that they're all good people who just want to be our friends?
It makes no sense that other people can affect my own people's relations of them, but I can't help ease the tension of my own bloody people against another nation.
It makes no sense that other people can affect my own people's relations of them, but I can't help ease the tension of my own bloody people against another nation.
No, he's right. I always forget that one, because it requires pretty high relations to achieve and usually by the time I have enough relations to get FB, I've been able to boost my opinion enough to not need it (and not want to pay for it.)
Plus, cancelling FB gives you -5 Distrust for two years, which is a pain.
But yeah, if you need +55 and can get FB, it works.
What the hell? I remember testing this and getting no change. Does it only work for the player? I tested giving an AI FBR, and it didn't have any modifier.
Works for AI nations too
I just used yesman to force Ragusa to take FB from me, and:
Maybe you tested it in an earlier patch and it (stealth-)changed? Don't know! I can't remember if I tested it in 1.2.2, but it's definitely done it in all of 1.3.x.
Read the Wiki! That's generally a good place to start when you have questions.
This seems to imply that improved relations is somewhat bilateral. But, I don't know to what extent.
This seems to imply that improved relations is somewhat bilateral. But, I don't know to what extent.
The Wiki is indeed great. One must just remember that it's rarely complete and sometimes outdated, especially after new patches. Personal research is always recommended, and there's a lot of information in the forum not yet transferred to the wiki. (Which I feel bad about, having contributed a regularly to forum knowledge but never got around to copying the same information to the Wiki. One day i shall put in a big effort and start copying over my research.. hopefully.)
It's not. The Wiki list says 'some modifiers are bi-directional'; Improved Relations is not one - each nation needs to initiate their own Improve Relations to boost the others' opinion.
I've been wondering for some time as to whether there are any tricks or techniques for encouraging an AI nation to Improve Relations with me. I have been meaning to study the AI files to understand what factors the AI takes into account when deciding whether to send a Diplomat to Improve Relations. I imagine there should be steps that a player can take to increase the chance of this happening. Though it remains to be seen if that will be of practical use for gaining alliances any quicker.
It's not. The Wiki list says 'some modifiers are bi-directional'; Improved Relations is not one - each nation needs to initiate their own Improve Relations to boost the others' opinion.
I've been wondering for some time as to whether there are any tricks or techniques for encouraging an AI nation to Improve Relations with me. I have been meaning to study the AI files to understand what factors the AI takes into account when deciding whether to send a Diplomat to Improve Relations. I imagine there should be steps that a player can take to increase the chance of this happening. Though it remains to be seen if that will be of practical use for gaining alliances any quicker.