how do I handle Norway as Sweden?

[SirGrotius]

this is backing up a bit, but i don't see the relevance of having a danish king on the throne of norway to establish their special relationship. numerous countries had foreign kings, especially around the time of victoria, off the top of my head i'm thinking bulgaria, greece, belgium, and even spain almost got a hohenzollern! the monarch's relation is to other monarchs, not to the people, for ties of nationalism and culture, having a danish monarch just doesn't hold.

 

[Conrad]

I guess it was nostalgia among other things.

Getting a Danish king was
1) a way of returning the good old Danish days.
2) showing the Swedes that they did not want a "Swedish" king.
3) having a king that was not too foreign.

Getting a Danish king they actually got a king who was related to other kings in Europe.

 

[OriginalRafiki]

Originally posted by Conrad
*Trying very hard not to write what kind of jobs Swedes leave for Norwegians.*

Right back atch'ya, my friend

Rafiki

 

[Conrad]

:rofl: Conrad

 

[unmerged(1973)]

Originally posted by Conrad
I guess it was nostalgia among other things.

Getting a Danish king was
1) a way of returning the good old Danish days.
2) showing the Swedes that they did not want a "Swedish" king.
3) having a king that was not too foreign.

Getting a Danish king they actually got a king who was related to other kings in Europe.

In fact the Norwegian Government first offered King Oscar to suggest a Swedish prince they could offer the throne. When Oscar refused, the danish Prince Carl was the obvious choice. Especially since he was married to an English princess. This was probably much more important than the "danish connection"...

 

[Galleblære]

Originally posted by Conrad
I guess it was nostalgia among other things.

Getting a Danish king was
1) a way of returning the good old Danish days.
2) showing the Swedes that they did not want a "Swedish" king.
3) having a king that was not too foreign.

Getting a Danish king they actually got a king who was related to other kings in Europe.

Actually, quite a bit of research went into the selection of the future Norwegian King, and Haakon was related to the Harald Hairfair dynasty, if I remember correctly. Also, yes, selecting a King that wasnt completly "alien" was important too.

 

[Conrad]

Originally posted by Galleblære
Actually, quite a bit of research went into the selection of the future Norwegian King, and Haakon was related to the Harald Hairfair dynasty, if I remember correctly.

Well, so were and are most royalty in Europe.

I have a nice little family tree for our king (simplified of course), and it always baffles me that all the great people he is descended from: Rurik, Harald fairhair, Charlemagne, Erik the Victorious, Byzantine emperors, etc., etc. would boil down to our little king. I like him though.

 

[unmerged(20021)]

Question

Originally posted by Galleblære
Well, Sweden never really had any great success with their military campaigns in Norway, they all froze to death, got their leaders killed etc.

When Norway was sepperated from Denmark during the Napolenonic Wars, it was a national "awakening". Great effort was later used on creating a national identity and creating a unique Norwegian cultural feel and heritage.

So it is no wonder that Sweden experienced a lot more problems holding Norway than Denmark ever did.

I'm an Austro-German-American myself, and I have a pretty firm grasp of ethno-nationalist identities in central Europe, but I never understood Scandinavia. Finland sure, they're Uralo-Turkic; but how do Danes, Swedes, and Norwegians really differ. I can make out all three languages pretty well from my knowledge of German and English, and they look very similar except for some spelling/vowel issues (the o with the line through it as opposed to an umlaut). So what divides you?

 

[unmerged(1973)]

Re: Question

Originally posted by Herentir
So what divides you?

History

 

[Conrad]

Re: Question

Originally posted by Herentir
I'm an Austro-German-American myself, and I have a pretty firm grasp of ethno-nationalist identities in central Europe, but I never understood Scandinavia. Finland sure, they're Uralo-Turkic; but how do Danes, Swedes, and Norwegians really differ. I can make out all three languages pretty well from my knowledge of German and English, and they look very similar except for some spelling/vowel issues (the o with the line through it as opposed to an umlaut). So what divides you?

History, as Frodon said.

The most important reason in history was that the Kalmar Union was not very well done, and that the Swedish nobles rebelled against a Danish king.

The Queen who created the Union said that the three Scandinavian kingdoms were to be united forever, but she did not succeed in creating a centralized government.

Then we had Denmark and Sweden waging an internecine war for a few hundred years. Sweden took Norway from Denmark, but the Norwegians created a feeling of being different from Swedes and Danes.

Still, I guess that most Scandinavians have a feeling of being almost the same people, speaking almost the same language.
That is why we regard the countries as siblings. Not identical, but similar.

Well, perhaps I am only speeking for myself.

 

[Galleblære]

Well, Norwegians thinks of the other scandinavians as their brother people, they just kinda think of Sweden as their "bitter-older-brother" kinda type, and Denmark as their "friendly, but at times annoying little brother"

I CARE more for the Swedes, Danes, Icelanders, Finns than I do for any other people for those named reasons. Just because we aren't all under one border doesnt mean the kinship isn't there.

 

[unmerged(9938)]

For those of you who want to play Norway. No mod needed. Just: start up as Sweeden, relase Norway as satelite, save and exit. Enter and choose Norway...

Not much fun though

TMO

 

[unmerged(20021)]

Okay

I see ... I have some good anecdotes though. When I served in Europe as a U.S. Army officer a few years back, I worked with Swedish and Norwegian officers many times, especially in Macedonia. I thought they were great guys and I helped my unit maintain a relation with both armies back in Germany. What I remember most about them is they HATED Russia. It was very clear to me, that for all of them, the enemy was and is Russia. So I had to smile when I was recently playing Totaler Krieg (an excellent game btw) and my Germans (not nazis in this particular game, it was a constitutional monarchy) with their Norwegian and Swedish ALLIES were battling the Soviets and the Finns in Karelia. Lots o' fun!

 

[Gothmog]

Re: Question

Originally posted by Herentir
I'm an Austro-German-American myself, and I have a pretty firm grasp of ethno-nationalist identities in central Europe, but I never understood Scandinavia. Finland sure, they're Uralo-Turkic; but how do Danes, Swedes, and Norwegians really differ. I can make out all three languages pretty well from my knowledge of German and English, and they look very similar except for some spelling/vowel issues (the o with the line through it as opposed to an umlaut). So what divides you?

Interesting line of thought...a Frenchman I knew one commented that he couldn't for the life of him figure out why Scandinavians where so utterly devoted to maintaining their narrowly defined identities rather than seeing all they had in common. To him, Scandinavians had much more in common than a Frenchman living in Normandy had with a Frenchman living in Marseilles (this is his opinion, not mine, I can't comment one what criteria he went by).

 

[Gothmog]

Re: Okay

Originally posted by Herentir
I see ... I have some good anecdotes though. When I served in Europe as a U.S. Army officer a few years back, I worked with Swedish and Norwegian officers many times, especially in Macedonia. I thought they were great guys and I helped my unit maintain a relation with both armies back in Germany. What I remember most about them is they HATED Russia. It was very clear to me, that for all of them, the enemy was and is Russia. So I had to smile when I was recently playing Totaler Krieg (an excellent game btw) and my Germans (not nazis in this particular game, it was a constitutional monarchy) with their Norwegian and Swedish ALLIES were battling the Soviets and the Finns in Karelia. Lots o' fun!

History is a big factor here... We (and the Finns) have had on and off wars with Russians for 600 years...

 

[Conrad]

Re: Okay

Originally posted by Herentir
I see ... I have some good anecdotes though. When I served in Europe as a U.S. Army officer a few years back, I worked with Swedish and Norwegian officers many times, especially in Macedonia. I thought they were great guys and I helped my unit maintain a relation with both armies back in Germany. What I remember most about them is they HATED Russia. It was very clear to me, that for all of them, the enemy was and is Russia. So I had to smile when I was recently playing Totaler Krieg (an excellent game btw) and my Germans (not nazis in this particular game, it was a constitutional monarchy) with their Norwegian and Swedish ALLIES were battling the Soviets and the Finns in Karelia. Lots o' fun!

We are also aware of the fact that the Scandinavian peninsula geographically is just an appendix to the mighty Russian mainland.

 

[MegaPIMP]

I don't hate russians, ahh Vladimir can make one hell of a soup

They are alright once you get to know em, but the polish....

 

[Gothmog]

Originally posted by Galleblære
I CARE more for the Swedes, Danes, Icelanders, Finns than I do for any other people for those named reasons. Just because we aren't all under one border doesnt mean the kinship isn't there.

Kind of the same way I feel. To use a primitive example, I always cheer for the other Nordic nations if they're not playing against us (then I want them to lose by 12-0 or so ). "Battles" between us are some of the most memorable ones...Finns I know always drag up that defeat they inflicted upon us in the 98 Olympics...the I counter with last years worlds...

Originally posted by Galleblære
Well, Norwegians thinks of the other scandinavians as their brother people, they just kinda think of Sweden as their "bitter-older-brother" kinda type, and Denmark as their "friendly, but at times annoying little brother"

Swedes often think Norwegians have a kind of inferiority complex, at least against Swedes...we on the other hand can admittedly sometimes can assume a bit of a "big brother" attitude...sad but true.

 

[Conrad]

Re: Re: Question

Originally posted by Gothmog
Interesting line of thought...a Frenchman I knew one commented that he couldn't for the life of him figure out why Scandinavians where so utterly devoted to maintaining their narrowly defined identities rather than seeing all they had in common. To him, Scandinavians had much more in common than a Frenchman living in Normandy had with a Frenchman living in Marseilles (this is his opinion, not mine, I can't comment one what criteria he went by).

To a Frenchman there are huge differences between a Marseillois and a Norman.

Odd as it may seem people in northern France feel more culturally related to other north Europeans that to the southerners who in their eyes are much more like Italians and Spaniards.

 

[Gothmog]

Originally posted by TMO
For those of you who want to play Norway. No mod needed. Just: start up as Sweeden, relase Norway as satelite, save and exit. Enter and choose Norway...

Not much fun though

TMO

Should work I guess...that's not what I'd do, though...unified pan-Scandinavia, here I come.