• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Conrad

Cunning linguist
71 Badges
Apr 20, 2001
646
0
Visit site
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
In my first game I will of course play Sweden.

One of my most important aims, expect for world domination, would be to reform Norways relation with Sweden, i. e. make it an integral part of the country.

Will it be possible to annex vassalized countries in the game, like in EU?
 

Galleblære

Panzerberserker
30 Badges
Jan 15, 2002
3.781
529
Visit site
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
Originally posted by Conrad
In my first game I will of course play Sweden.

One of my most important aims, expect for world domination, would be to reform Norways relation with Sweden, i. e. make it an integral part of the country.

Will it be possible to annex vassalized countries in the game, like in EU?

Sadly, it seems Norway is already an integral part of Sweden from the start, (Not playable even). Part of Paradox's scheme to make Sweden overpowered once again! :D;) Oh, I can see it, besides the Swedish Alaska event, the Swedish conquest of Russia in roughly 50% of the games! :D
 

Paradox Interactive

Field Marshal
Paradox Staff
Feb 21, 2001
3.550
3
www.paradoxplaza.com
Re: Re: how do I handle Norway as Sweden?

Originally posted by Galleblære
Sadly, it seems Norway is already an integral part of Sweden from the start, (Not playable even). Part of Paradox's scheme to make Sweden overpowered once again! :D;) Oh, I can see it, besides the Swedish Alaska event, the Swedish conquest of Russia in roughly 50% of the games! :D

Play Norway in the Great War scenario... Not our fault that history is the way it is (and that we choose to interpret it this way:))


P
 
Dec 3, 2001
56
0
Visit site
I must say I'm really dissapointed that i can't play Norway before the grat war scenario:mad: .

After parliamentarism was introduced in the 1880s Sweden had no real influence over Norway, exept the foreign policies. That's just the way history is;)
 

unmerged(8860)

Chomskian Devil Child
Apr 22, 2002
127
0
Actually, Norway kept their own constitution and parliament (Stortinget) most of the time the union existed. In my opinion Norway should start out like a semi-independent (like a vassal in EU2) part of Sweden -- not an integrated part (like Finland had been for centuries before).
 

Galleblære

Panzerberserker
30 Badges
Jan 15, 2002
3.781
529
Visit site
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
Anyhow, I will probably create a small scenario so that I can play Norway from the start, and if the engine can't handle it, I will restrict my fareign politics with house rules untill I get sufficient power to defy the swedes in that area as well.
 

Conrad

Cunning linguist
71 Badges
Apr 20, 2001
646
0
Visit site
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
Oh, well,

I wish Sweden would have been less kind (stupid), IRL, and annexed Norway right away.

Jämtland, Härjedalen and Bohuslän could have been joined by the rest of Norway as a bunch of Swedish provinces.

On the other hand, the Norwegians were probably too nationalistic for that to work, even then.

Makes me wonder why they did not have anything against being Danish for so many centuries.

All the oil... Sigh!

:eek:
 

Galleblære

Panzerberserker
30 Badges
Jan 15, 2002
3.781
529
Visit site
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
Well, Sweden never really had any great success with their military campaigns in Norway, they all froze to death, got their leaders killed etc.

When Norway was sepperated from Denmark during the Napolenonic Wars, it was a national "awakening". Great effort was later used on creating a national identity and creating a unique Norwegian cultural feel and heritage.

So it is no wonder that Sweden experienced a lot more problems holding Norway than Denmark ever did.
 

Conrad

Cunning linguist
71 Badges
Apr 20, 2001
646
0
Visit site
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
Yes, we were a little unlucky, at least twice, and all those **** mountains. They are an advantage to the defender.

A Norwegian told me that the mountains were the real reason behind the Union.
 

Ktarn

Ideological Crusader
84 Badges
Apr 15, 2001
1.116
0
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
Originally posted by Kensai
Actually, Norway kept their own constitution and parliament (Stortinget) most of the time the union existed. In my opinion Norway should start out like a semi-independent (like a vassal in EU2) part of Sweden -- not an integrated part (like Finland had been for centuries before).
Norway didnt just have a parliment and a constitution for most of the time during the union, it had it all the time.
Sign me up for the Norway mod.
For a fantasy option we could have some events were Norway tries to leave the union during WWI. Assuming that it failed in 1905, it does seem resonable that they would try again when the great powers are incapable of intervening.
 

unmerged(12555)

First Lieutenant
Dec 9, 2002
237
0
Visit site
I think that Norway and Denmark where very much like each other. Almost same language. I am danish and I don't understand a single word is swedish. I do howerver understan norwegian fluently. And don't forget that Norways first monarch after they sepperated from Denmark was a danish prince.
 

John Poole

Lt. General
58 Badges
Mar 31, 2001
1.293
0
Visit site
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Magicka
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
Originally posted by Kensai
Actually, Norway kept their own constitution and parliament (Stortinget) most of the time the union existed. In my opinion Norway should start out like a semi-independent (like a vassal in EU2) part of Sweden -- not an integrated part (like Finland had been for centuries before).

Each U.S. state had its own constitution and Parliament...I guess each of them should be a vassal like in EU2 and should be playable darnit!!
 

Conrad

Cunning linguist
71 Badges
Apr 20, 2001
646
0
Visit site
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
Czack wrote:
________________________________________
I think that Norway and Denmark where very much like each other. Almost same language. I am danish and I don't understand a single word is swedish. I do howerver understan norwegian fluently.
________________________________________

cough cough, I am a Swede and I understand norwegian perfectly, but Danes tend to speak unintelligibly.

Czack wrote:
_________________________________________
And don't forget that Norways first monarch after they sepperated from Denmark was a danish prince.
_________________________________________

Note that Norway was ruled by Swedish kings before the Kalmar Union, and so should have stayed Swedish when the union was dissolved - together with Iceland, the Faroe Islands and Greenland.

In fact it is only due to the Kalmar union that those parts of Scandinavia became "Danish".

And John Poole is right. It is just as logical to let Norway be playable as it would be to let Massachussets be playable.
 

Galleblære

Panzerberserker
30 Badges
Jan 15, 2002
3.781
529
Visit site
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
Originally posted by John Poole
Each U.S. state had its own constitution and Parliament...I guess each of them should be a vassal like in EU2 and should be playable darnit!!

Do you actually have anything to add, or just being an ass for the sake of being an ass? :p
 

Galleblære

Panzerberserker
30 Badges
Jan 15, 2002
3.781
529
Visit site
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
Originally posted by Conrad

Note that Norway was ruled by Swedish kings before the Kalmar Union, and so should have stayed Swedish when the union was dissolved - together with Iceland, the Faroe Islands and Greenland.

In fact it is only due to the Kalmar union that those parts of Scandinavia became "Danish".

And John Poole is right. It is just as logical to let Norway be playable as it would be to let Massachussets be playable.

Where is this coming from? :D I think you need to look into the history books a lot more carefully. Had it not been for Denmark, Norway would have stayed independent. We elected several kings, after Håkon died, but for some reason saw it hard to keep them here.

As for the other matter, the fact that Norway could have tried to break out of the Swedish "Union" a lot earleir, but postponed it due to not being ready (powerful enough) is good enough reason for it, in a perfect simulation, being independent with it's fareign policy controlled by Sweden, and it's merchent fleet being forced to use Swedish flags.

Norway was 100% independent in 1814, but was naturally unable to stop a Swedish intervention, so we had to accept Swedish control, but at the same time were allowed to keep our Storting etc. By that very act, I would heavily argue that Norway had too high degree of independence to be reflected as a integral part of Sweden. Oh well.

Think about it, if this game is anything like HoI and EU2, Sweden will get the resources and income of all of Norways provinces, and can use that on it's Swedish provinces instead, so that at the union breakup, when the Swedish player deceides to go to war, it is a piece of cake, when in reality, most, if not all was spent domestically in Norway, and invested in creating a considerabel military threat to Sweden at the union breakup of 1905.
 

John Poole

Lt. General
58 Badges
Mar 31, 2001
1.293
0
Visit site
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Magicka
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
Originally posted by Galleblære
Do you actually have anything to add, or just being an ass for the sake of being an ass? :p

Just saying that your nationalistic emotions are getting in the way of the simple fact that Norway was not an independent country just because it had a constitution and parliament. A nation is independent when it is recognized as such by the international community. I dont think the British were sending Ambassadors to Norway in 1889!

I could be a passionate North Carolina patriot and insist based on numerous historical instances that North Carolina enjoyed immense autonomy and rights in the United States prior to 1860. I might insist that North Carolina be playable given its ability to forge its own policy...but that would be absurd just like Norway being playable simply because it had numerous rights and autonomy.
 

Grosshaus

Minister of Peace for Europe
42 Badges
May 14, 2003
10.504
76
Visit site
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
  • Victoria 2 Beta
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • 500k Club
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
Originally posted by John Poole
A nation is independent when it is recognized as such by the international community. I dont think the British were sending Ambassadors to Norway in 1889!

You are describing the requirement for a nation to be independent, which is quite different from being a satellite.
 

John Poole

Lt. General
58 Badges
Mar 31, 2001
1.293
0
Visit site
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Magicka
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
Originally posted by Grosshaus
You are describing the requirement for a nation to be independent, which is quite different from being a satellite.

Poland was a Soviet satellite and Great Britain sent ambassadors to her. The international community recognized Norway as an internal Swedish matter and it was until 7 June 1905.
 

Galleblære

Panzerberserker
30 Badges
Jan 15, 2002
3.781
529
Visit site
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
Like I said before, you are looking at things to simplistic. I suggest you read about the event leading up to the Union-breakup in 1905. IE, looking at political maps at the time, Norway is indeed listed as a seperate country, and Norway had a much greater influence abroad than Sweden due to it's immensly growing merchant fleet.

Why do you think we were allowed such a high degree of independence in 1814? A winter war in Norway would have been ugly, not to mention the intent to win the Norwegians over rather than force them. During the 1820's Norway fought to protect what they had won in 1814, to a great success. The strive protection of the constitution of 17th of may 1814 also spawned the 17th of may celebrations in the 1820s and onwarsds.

Carl Johan gave up reforming the Norwegian constitution during the 1830s creating an even more vibrant 17th of May celebration.

It was above all the holders of "embete", or higher office, who were responsible for creating the Constitution of Eidsvold. It was this group which stood guard over it against Carl Johan's encroachments in the 1820s. It was also this group which in fact ruled the country during the first two generations after 1814. From the 1830s the farmers began to awaken and became conscious of the power given them under the Constitution, and the 1870s and '80s were characterized by the fierce political struggle between the old ruling class -- the senior office holders and bourgeoisie -- on the one side, and the farmers and the liberal urban citizenry on the other.

On 7 June 1905 the union with Sweden was dissolved by a decision passed in the Storting. The dissolution was supported by a united population, more united perhaps than at any time before or since. This attitude was also to be reflected in the 17th of May celebrations. The differences between the parties were to give way to the feeling of unity. The 17th of May processions were now characterized by a feeling of fellowship and of rejoicing that the country had at last gained full independence.

The independence could however, been a lot less peaceful. Norway had built forts along the Swedish borders, soldiers lay in trenches, new armored steam ships had been bought, and was a considerable threat to a supposedly invading Sweden.

Simply put, this doesn't sound like the actions of a nation that doesn't have independence/self government, does it? ;)

I would like to see Norway something similar to vassal status in EU2, with limited fareign office, and their free hands growing stronger year by year. That is a LOT more accurate than having Sweden in complete control over every province, and free to use the value gained from Norwegian provinces in Swedish ones for example.

Also, I am getting tired of people throwing the "you're just nationalistic" line every time people try to point out faults. And I highly doubt you have any knowledge of the Norwegian-Swedish realtionship beyond what you have read in this thread.