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Nerhesi

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The year is 1178, I am the Arabian emperor and my retinue cap is 34k (resulting in 16k or so sized retinue).

Meanwhile I routinely see posts about 200k sized retinue... Tips? Tricks?
 

MrWeRD

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What? How did anyone get a retinue of 200k in 1178? I don't think even the Egyptians have a full army of 200k, levies and all.
 

_krampe_

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Take cheaper retinues, but i doubt 200k retinues is a realistic number except maybe if you own all of the map.
 

Ahaz Flagg

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Those people posting 200 k rets all have one thing in common I saw, they had frigging huge blobs of Empires. Upgrade upgrade and more upgrade and lots and lots of vassals.
 

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I never had 200k retinue.I may have posted some of the numbers your referring to.The 200k referred to the retinue Capacity.(200k out of 1,000,000 possible manpower) and I was A HUGE blob of an empire. The HRE with 550 realm size and many fully upgraded(to limit of tech) holdings.

PS I never had a retinue more than 50k.About 10k of that Knights.All that retinue and 200k levies were still rofl stomped by a 125k mongol stack.
 

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They all died with their boots on.....Levies and Retinue..........No cost to reinforce, there was nothing left to reinforce.

Actually, you should turn off retinue reinforcement while at War.Unless you are INSANELY rich.(or only use half speed)

The RETINUE was only 50K.Yes 10k Knights but 50K all arms.

The other troops were the Levys of the Entire Empire.which Equaled 200k.

TOGETHER the lost to a MONGOL Deathstack of 125K(65K HorseArchers)
 

Lord Finnish

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25k retinue is ideal. It is not big enough to get too much attrition in most areas but it is big enough to easily take down entire nations without any help from levies. This is especially the case with Byzantines who have Cataphract retinues which are virtually invincible on the battlefield and sieges alike.
 

Lwantssugar

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If you're emperor of Arabia but have small Retinues it might because some provinces have poor military org tech or their holdings aren't fully upgraded. Because when I hit the point where I could restore the Roman Empire I had a cap of 300k, but that was because I owned all of the de jure lands of: ERE, Jeruselem, Egypt, Africa, Italy, Sicily, Hungary, Croatia, Serbia and countless other small kingdoms
Also attrition tends to be pretty bad around Anatolia and Armenia, so I keep my retinue stacks around 12-14 thousand
 

l3ol3o

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Time and land is the answer. To get huge retinues you need it to be late game first of all so your tech is high. Then you need a dozen Kingdoms or so so your manpower is massive.

Frankly anything over 50 seems to be overkill. In my current game I can make a retinue of about 100k but only use about 50k of them. I can win pretty much every war with them. You can just assault away and they will refill.

Managing huge retinues is a pain in the ass frankly because of attrition.
 

unmerged(26764)

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I have had a retinue cap well over 200k, and an actual retinue of maybe 140k in two games now. Mostly made up of cultural heavy infantry / pikes with a cav kicker. In a game I just put on hold with a reunited Rome, my retinue cap is about 400k -- I haven't fully built it out yet but it's going to be over 200k retinue I'm guessing.

It takes two things:

1. A very big empire. Something over 1000 holdings.
2. High military organization technology.

Even a much smaller empire can have a much larger retinue than 20k, although it's always s going to be somewhat smaller if you use expensive cultural heavy cav. (You're Arabia so you get light cav -- disappointing I know). I'm guessing the reason people aren't seeing large retinues is it's early in the game timeframe or they neglect technology.

Most people don't bother to maximize for technology gain. They end the game at tech 3 maybe. With retinues, it's a horrible plan. Both because size and quality of them depends on technology.

In your game, however, it's just too early to see that kind of high technology yet. Even in the middle east, because their military tech isn't really that much better than Europe. So that's a major part of your problem. Focus on military organization and build universities in your capital and demense and it will go way up over time.
 

Ahaz Flagg

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I have had a retinue cap well over 200k, and an actual retinue of maybe 140k in two games now. Mostly made up of cultural heavy infantry / pikes with a cav kicker. In a game I just put on hold with a reunited Rome, my retinue cap is about 400k -- I haven't fully built it out yet but it's going to be over 200k retinue I'm guessing.

It takes two things:

1. A very big empire. Something over 1000 holdings.
2. High military organization technology.

Even a much smaller empire can have a much larger retinue than 20k, although it's always s going to be somewhat smaller if you use expensive cultural heavy cav. (You're Arabia so you get light cav -- disappointing I know). I'm guessing the reason people aren't seeing large retinues is it's early in the game timeframe or they neglect technology.

Most people don't bother to maximize for technology gain. They end the game at tech 3 maybe. With retinues, it's a horrible plan. Both because size and quality of them depends on technology.

In your game, however, it's just too early to see that kind of high technology yet. Even in the middle east, because their military tech isn't really that much better than Europe. So that's a major part of your problem. Focus on military organization and build universities in your capital and demense and it will go way up over time.

Well as to that let me ask this, because my build order is getting walls to max then castle cities to max, then I build church schools and then universities, the best I have had at endgame , like about 1350 is 3.5 stars, how do you go faster? I keep my 3 council people on tech almost the whole game, unless they are needed else where, but put them back asap.

I never keep more then 7 as my demense and try to get those 7 asap.
 

unmerged(26764)

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I have an old post on here that gets resurrected every once and awhile breaking down how to maximize tech. It helps if you understand the entire system, which really takes breaking down the tooltips and thinking about it for an hour or two which most people have better things to do.

You're on the right track, mostly. Although something isn't working right because even in Russia I routinuely get ahead time in tech by about 1250, break tech 4 on schedule before 1350, and an on path to 5 by 1400-1425 (if I actually play that long).

Things to max tech in order:

1. Build max church schools in your demense as soon as the tech penalty goes down a bit (by 1100ish in Europe, longer in Spain or the Middle East). (No need to start focusing on tech at all before the penalty goes down and makes the investment worth it).

2. Occupy high slot counties for your demense, better if they're packed close together. Build cities in every available slot. Do NOT waste slots on extra castles.

3. Make the county with the most cities in it your capital. Many bonuses are based on your capital. It will upgrade first and spread tech from there.

4. Gun for town infrastructure tech 2 on schedule or a little early. Depending on where you play and the basic starting tech of your demense, this usually means around 1125ish -- a few years before the tech penalty goes away. Then build universities in every city.

5. Keep the focus on town infrastructure 3 if the before time penalty isn't too harsh. Upgrade those universities.

6. Do it again for infrastructure 4. You don't need 5 -- it doesn't unlock any great upgrade.

7. If you can grab a few super high-tech counties in Spain or the Middle East early, do it. Once they spread their tech back to your real demense, you can let them go and replace them with counties near your base.

That's a good basic guide. With retinues, I now mostly focus military organization first in military to build a bigger retinue -- although you need to spread your focus in that tab around because every improvement is important. For the other two tabs I tend to leave it on town infra and legalism most of the game, except when the before time penalty is really harsh.

A strategy note: One of the keys you notice is rushing town infra. Getting universities up everywhere (or improving them) 50 years earlier then you would is 50 years worth of a huge tech bonus. If you don't do this, or you don't have cities slotted in your demense to do this, it's hard to compete on tech.

A second strategy note: It often helps to grant all those cities you build in each county to one mayor, who is then rich. (One mayor gets 3-4 cities). He will often upgrade those universities for you as soon as they unlock, saving you a ton of money on upgrade costs. He'll also build ports and the like too, which means more money for you.
 
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Ahaz Flagg

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Ok thanks, I was going for Castle infrastructure, and not getting to Level 2 unis!! Will give that a whirl and see what happens. On building the cities in the extra slots, should I be doing this before upgrading my troop buildings? Because after i get unis i go for cultural troops to max.
 

unmerged(26764)

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Ok thanks, I was going for Castle infrastructure, and not getting to Level 2 unis!! Will give that a whirl and see what happens. On building the cities in the extra slots, should I be doing this before upgrading my troop buildings? Because after i get unis i go for cultural troops to max.

This sort of depends on your situation -- how badly do you need the troops?

Personally, I do a mix but focus on the cities. That's the long term focused move. But I also tend to rely mostly at the stage on realm levies and retinues. So I neglect my personal levies for a while. It's mostly about what you really need right now, how much cash you have, and whether you can spare the troops at this moment. I'd rather have a bigger retinue faster than more levies from my castles now, but that's up to you.

The cities are very expensive to build obviously. But they do pay back over time too. The sooner you build them, the faster the mayors upgrade them into cash machines for you.
 

Lwantssugar

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Yeah that's the best route to rake in the gold, build one of each holding in the county screen, then fill any remaining slots with nothing but cities. I did this, using Scotland to unite the British Isles and by 1313 or so I can field about 40k in retinues and another 80k or so in levees. I make over 60 gold a month because the castles, bishopirics, and cities have their tax and tech maxed out. Also after a surprisingly successful invasion of England I installed doges in the wealthy coastal duchies like Middlesex, Norfolk, Kent and so on