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Guston

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All of my counselors suck. I can never poach them off other courts by invite " no reason to move -3, base reluctance -2" and they never accept a matrilineal marriage from my couriers because they are "too unimportant". Anyone have a reliable way to get what i need?
 

unmerged(450592)

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If you conquer some lands in holy wars you can easily get good people for the council.

Here's how I do it. After holy war you have some cities and bishoprics to give to people.
I list all characters in my realm with my religion and culture, sort by statistic I like and give my conquered cities/bishoprics to best people out there (without ambitious trait of course).
They are your vassals now and you can hire them.
 

Blackluck

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Another thing to try, albeit a bit tedious, is to search other provinces for people with claims against it; the ones with the up thumb will be willing to move. You can also start marrying your better couriers to each other (aka "breeding" program) and eventually you'll get a larger stable of decent counselors.
 

Cymsdale

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It can be tough as a lowly count, but once you have a few provinces under your belt I've never had much trouble finding someone decent enough for every position. You don't need 20+ for every one.
 

lemmy101

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Yeah this has been made steadily more difficult since the preview build and every subsequent version / patch since.

Used to be you could invite pretty much anyone who liked you to court as there was no 'no reason to move' or 'base reluctance'. Once this was added I started relying on maren....marriter....mariter....reversey marriages to courtiers invited via intrigue decisions, but then they nerfed that with 'unimportant people'.

End of the day, I think the designers want you to make do with the best you've got for a lot of the time, particularly as a count as Cymsdale says. Now I've been forced to have a chancellor with 2 skill on occasions, instead of consistently having 20+, so it ultimately makes the game more interesting and keeps counts from assassinating entire lines of HRE emperors and other silly things.

So best advice is to think in the long term and get women in during regular marriages with the top tier 'education' stat in your required field. Grey Eminence for diplomacy, Midas Touch for Stewardship, I forget the rest. Get them teaching your children, spread education across the stats with various courtier children, and within a generation or two you have a good supply of male and females with good stats who can both be your councillors and teach the next generation.

What I tend to do is, whenever a child needs educating due to the death of their tutor, at that point survey what their highest stat is, and then assign a new guardian based on that stat. Better to have one great stat than a bunch of average ones.

I've been known to swap a child's tutor for this same reason too. At 6 their stats are too low, and lacking any traits, to determine what they will get and what their natural skills are. I know this is influenced by the education but, especially when not educating them yourself, you can't just presume they will get the same general personality traits as their guardian and the yearly non-trait related stat increases are completely random as far as I can tell.

e.g. You have a six year old kid with 2 in diplomacy, 1 or 0 in everything else. You assign them to your main Grey Eminence character for teaching hoping they will become a great diplomat.

They get random stat increases each year, so by the time they are 12 they may have climbed to 7 points in Steward, become Temperate +2 stew, Diligent +1 stew, Just + 2 stew, Greedy -1 dip, and have a hare lip -1 dip, making them 12 in stewardship and 0 diplomacy at 12 years old.

For simplicity let's assume they didn't get any more stats / traits after that point, having them tutored by someone with Grey Eminence, and them getting that trait themselves, would give them a diplomacy of 9, stewardship 12, leaving them competent in several areas but excelling in none. As a ruler this may be preferable, since it helps your state stats across the board. For councillers, however, not so.

So changing a kid with 12 stewardship and 0 diplomacy to be taught by someone who is Midas Touched (even if their own steward stat is not great) will mean that once they hit 16 (again assuming no stat increases, and that they get that education trait) they will have a stewardship of 21. Even getting a less powerful education stat than Midas Touched (which seems from observation to be more likely than having them educated by Midas Touched since 6 years old, since you're switching tutors midway) will mean they are somewhere from above average to very good at stewardship.

Of course, since they continue developing up to 16, which wasn't represented in my example, you can easily get past 21 with a bit of work and luck. I've regularly had characters with stats up to and over 27 this way and certainly in stewardship and diplomacy (which tend to be my focus) I rarely go wanting for good councillors after second generation, even if I'm still a lowly count.

I can only guess at the exact mechanics in the education stat, switching tutors, and AI event choices for traits, but this all seems to work well for me.
 
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MasterofMagic

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It can be tough as a lowly count, but once you have a few provinces under your belt I've never had much trouble finding someone decent enough for every position. You don't need 20+ for every one.

Doo toooo. Need 20+ for diplomacy for sure, stewardship most definitely, spymaster #1 and bishop/chaplain positively as that's who I let raise my children. ;) Marshall might be the only one I wouldn't care if it was over 20 so much but when you're using him to train troups it's much better when he is.

And then you need backups for when you have to place vassals. You'll want a 20+ when you create a mayor ana 20+ when you create a Noble/castle holder and another 20+ for bishopric though this one isn't as important as the chaplain. ;)

Then you need a 2nd set of backups to backup the first group who might DIE and you'd be stuck with some 8 in a slot where you NEED a 20+ ;)

So, I'm workin on 20+'s all the time trying to keep a stock of them. :)
 

aphrochine

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Doo toooo. Need 20+ for diplomacy for sure, stewardship most definitely, spymaster #1 and bishop/chaplain positively as that's who I let raise my children. ;) Marshall might be the only one I wouldn't care if it was over 20 so much but when you're using him to train troups it's much better when he is.

And then you need backups for when you have to place vassals. You'll want a 20+ when you create a mayor ana 20+ when you create a Noble/castle holder and another 20+ for bishopric though this one isn't as important as the chaplain. ;)

Then you need a 2nd set of backups to backup the first group who might DIE and you'd be stuck with some 8 in a slot where you NEED a 20+ ;)

So, I'm workin on 20+'s all the time trying to keep a stock of them. :)

We must not be playing the same game. As a count, I'm absolutely FINE with having councilors in the high teens. Having a 20+ councilor is a WTFOMGsauce kind of happening. As a count...priorities imo:

Diplomacy: High. Helps your leige like you. If a ruler ever needs to lighten his load of demense (new ruler w/low stewardship or increase demense from conquered lands)...good to know you're first or near first in line.
Martial: Meh...unless you have an ambitious neighbor and you'll need every able bodied man to retain your lands use this slot to increase opinion primarily.
Stewardship: Low. Tax bonus on 12g/year doesnt really add up to much. As a count, you wont realize much opportunity from gold expenditure.
Intrigue: High. Detecting plots, corruption and blackmailing the gays will net you far more opportunities than any other thing as a Count.
Education: Having a good chaplain can help get that disrespectful bishop to pay YOU taxes instead of that anti-christ in rome, which can be more valuable than a 20+ Steward.
 

Polycrates

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Lemmy's advice above is excellent. Additionally, I found that - even post-patch - taking the prestige hit (and missing out on potential alliances) and marrying some daughters off matrilinearly to far-off courtiers with midas touch/grey eminence/webweaver in the early years was very worthwhile - they make good councilors to start with, and you can educate a whole heap of kiddies with them and get those skills passed around. And they tend to be nice and fertile to give you extra kiddies for your dynasty.
It's a lot harder to marry them now with the patch, takes quite a while browsing through the character list to find one (make sure you filter!), and you probably won't be able to get any with skill over 20 but as long as they're young and have the 4-star trait (and no really bad negative traits), that's the main thing.
 

MasterofMagic

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Stewardship: Low. Tax bonus on 12g/year doesnt really add up to much. As a count, you wont realize much opportunity from gold expenditure.

My 20+ Steward gives me a +65% taxation bonus to all holdings......how much does your puny one give you? ;) Plus I won't always be a count and with the extra money I can field MERCS a lot sooner and quicker than your puny get some extra provinces and holdings and then come a calling on you and your SINGLE province still trying to get to 100 gps hehe. I'm getting 82gp a year not 12 lol
 

lemmy101

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taking the prestige hit (and missing out on potential alliances) and marrying some daughters off matrilinearly to far-off courtiers with midas touch/grey eminence/webweaver in the early years was very worthwhile

Definitely! Also, it's potentially not even a prestige hit, as if they are your immediate family you lose say 20 for marrying a courtier, then get 50 back from the actual marriage (if you choose 'people respect wealth')

To be honest I rarely pay alliances any heed and focus purely on breeding / stats for marriages, so most of my females are married matrilinearly, as when it comes to it I get more luck from former vassal calls to arms than I ever do to alliance call to arms. Not that I hold it against them, I don't think I've ever agreed to a call to arms. Which is another reason I avoid them as I just end up getting prestige hits for turning them down.

Not only that but you're usually giving other future rulers a ton of inheritable claims on your lands whenever you marry daughters with normal marriages. Also nice to have 50+ living members of my dynasty, which is pretty much always the case when I have double the 'stock' :D
 
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