How Do I get Free personally loyal troops without resources to raise them?

[unmerged(72133)]

Playing easy level as Macedonians trying to learn the game.

1 Jan. 474 AVC

I start an easy game as Macedonians. I get some pop up message that I need more personally loyal troops. I have manpower of 15021 and 26 gold in treasure with 12 units in army and 2 in a fleet. Economy is +0.89. I take professional Soldiers, Horselords and Civic Duty as my National traits.

I immediately send my fleet to move to Propontis to start a blockade of the Tylis ports since I start at war with them. Additionally I begin recruiting troops as I am at war. I get trade routes trying to get stone for Macedonia province for the defensive benefit. I successfully get the Ares Omen bonus.

Tylis which I am at war with has 2017 manpower and 13 gold in treasury with 6 units all heavy infantry in an army. They have 6 provinces. Economy indicates +0.64. They take Professional Soldiers as their National trait. (I started a new game as them to see what they had after losing so badly in just a couple months.)


5 April 474 AVC

I have manpower of 9498 and 14 gold in the treasury with 15 units in my army. I have only 4 provinces. Economy is +1.16 with stone being imported in Macedonia. I have a fleet of 2 units blockading in Propontis. Three units are being recruited.


Tylis has 2304 manpower and 113 gold in treasury with 21 units in army. They still have only 6 provinces with the two ports blockaded for months by Macedonian fleet. Economy indicates -0.17. Of the 21 units, 15 show as loyal to Cerethrius Galbid who has personal wealth 36. (I had a saved game at this point just before their, unknown to me, army came and ravished me.) They have no access to Horse in trade or home provinces.

4 May 474 AVC

I have 7000-heavy infantry, 5000-Cavelry, 1000-horse archers, and 4000-archers in Macedonia province.
The Tylis army bearing down on me has 4000-militia, 11000-heavy infantry, 4000-Cavelry, 2000-archers.

So my question is how do I compete with an AI that raises 100 gold 15 units, some Cavelry and Archers without access to wood or horses, and can magically consolodate all those units in one province all in just four months (1 Jan to 5 April) all at no hit to manpower?

With this on the easy level I cannot imagine what hard will be like. How do I get me some of those free personally loyal troops at no cost?

 

[Dogia]

The number of personally loyal troops has nothing to do with the size of your standing army. Instead it refers to the number of your current units that are loyal to your ruler.

If you look at your army some units will have a little chain indicating that they are loyal to your ruler or a general.

In order to get more of your units loyal to your nations leader, have him command an army, if he is victorious in battle that will cause lots of them to become loyal.

Its a trrade off because sometimes your ruler will not be your best general, and you have to decide if defeating the enenmy is more important than ensuring loyaty

 

[Dogia]

As for defeating tylis with macedonia, you may need to go a bit over force limits but not much, the trick is to use your navy. Build your army up, and station them in the islands you control. divide your fleet into two. Let Tylis take macedonia and thessaly, block one of the routes to the islands allowing them to come in the other. When they engage your army, send your other navy to block their retreat. With a good general and the terrain modifiers you will destroy their army. Then take back your country and crush them

The army tylis has at start represents the horde like army they used to take the area they control

 

[unmerged(72133)]

Thanks for the responces.

I did a couple checks. I start a new game and save it on day one. I reload and switch to Tylis. They have 13 gold and 6 units.

I reload as Macedonia and let it run a day or two and save. I reload as Tylis. Suddenly they have 113 gold and a second new army has magically materialized out of thin air with 15 units including Cavelry and Archers which they have no resourses to recruit and they are all loyal to their chief. (so when the two armies combine they have 21 units) Is this a bug? or is this a game that massively cheats for the AI to cover weak programing? I have to admit if easy difficulty gives the AI an advantage of free 100 gold and units regardless of resources I think this is not the game for me.

Additionally this magic army has a leader with Martial 10. How am I susposed to get a good general to compete with a 10 when my best is a 8?


Thanks for any help in understanding this.

 

[Dogia]

Its not a bug, Tylis is just a powerful barbarian horde. Once you destroy their army they will be at your mercy. I had allot of trouble fightin tylis when i first started playing macedonia, but now i just fight them on the islands and block their retreat, defeating them in a single battle. Your general with a stat of 8 is enough to beat them with the terrian modifiers in the defenders favour in the islands (I have actually lost before, but then you retreat to teh mainland, take back their country, and their army is trapped and useless in the islands)

The ai does not cheat in pardox games(well with the exception of scotland in euIII), im pretty sure tylis starts with that massive army. But it might be a system where the ai may get an initial bonus to make tylis a challenge, but im curious now and will go look for myself

 

[Dogia]

Yeah i just loaded up tylis, and your right they start wth 6k, but they get more because an event fires representing reinforcements thet recieve. Epris also gets an event like this. But they are very rare, and once you defeat that horde your wont have to worry about more. Load up tylis, and play for a few days, and you can see the event

 

[unmerged(72133)]

Load up tylis, and play for a few days, and you can see the event

I did as you suggested and saw what you were talking about. It is some event where they get a free 15k army and 100 free gold. Seems to happen every time so it must be a planned event not random. Not sure why they just do not start and need an event a day later to accomplish it. I do not feel so put out since it seems to planned as part of Tylis beginning at that time frame. I tried a couple other nations around there and they did not get such an event so I see what you mean by very rare.

Thanks for helping me understand the game. I am glad its not some gamey trick for the AI since I do like a challange. But I like the AI to have similar constraints as me. Things like needing iron for heavy infantry, horses for Cavelry etc.

 

[Cheexsta]

I did as you suggested and saw what you were talking about. It is some event where they get a free 15k army and 100 free gold. Seems to happen every time so it must be a planned event not random. Not sure why they just do not start and need an event a day later to accomplish it. I do not feel so put out since it seems to planned as part of Tylis beginning at that time frame. I tried a couple other nations around there and they did not get such an event so I see what you mean by very rare.

Thanks for helping me understand the game. I am glad its not some gamey trick for the AI since I do like a challange. But I like the AI to have similar constraints as me. Things like needing iron for heavy infantry, horses for Cavelry etc.

It is done by event, similar to the one Epirus gets for Pyrrhus' army, because armies can't be set before the game. The game automatically generates armies and navies based on your country's provinces and population.

Tylis' army represents the Celtic invasion of Macedonia and Greece, which resulted in the death of the Macedonian king, Ptolemy Keraunos, and was only defeated by an army of combined Greek polei. The Celts were eventually repelled and were invited into Asia Minor by Nicomedes, the king of Bithynia, where they settled in the area that became known as Galatia.

Hopefully that explains why Tylis gets that big army

 

[unmerged(72133)]

Cheexsta thank you for the detailed explaination. I enjoy histroy which is why I was intrigued by this game and was unaware of the events which lead to Ptolemy Keraunos death. It gives a context to things. Although I always hated trying to memorize dates in back in school I understand it is all about context when trying to understand history, so we can apply what is learned to build our futures.

It is good to get a handle on the game mechanics so when I encounter it again in the future I will understand how the game generates armies and navies based on startup.

Tim

 

[delra]

They weren't actually defeated. They suffered from cold winter and skirmishes after they entered Greece (going around Thermopylae defence, guess which route) - and when Brennus died (of cold, go figure) his successor (forgot the name) decided to lead now unified Celts back north to settle in Thrace. Where they thrived for half a century or so until Thracians pushed them away to Asia Minor.

 

[Cheexsta]

I stand corrected

 

[delra]

Also, I find the starting wars of Macedon extremely difficult. I try to win them just now in a short run, and I lost... to Illyria. After the betrayal of other Greek states it became pretty much impossible. There should be a mechanism similar to HRE that'd make Greeks unite their armies in defence from barbarians...