How do I get elected King of Lombardy as ERE?

[Kurblius]

So I've been slowly acquiring bits of Lombardy as the Byzantine Emperor. Lombardy has elective succession. I am now an elector in Lombardy, and 4 of the other electors are also my vassals and of same culture and religion. However, while I can vote for myself, they still refuse to vote for me, preferring to vote for themselves (they won't for the King of Lombardy's choice either). They don't have the ambitious trait, so I'm puzzled. What do I have to do to get them to vote for me so that I can acquire the Kingdom of Lombardy?

 

[Kurblius]

I just read the Wiki and I noticed that they are more likely to vote for those who have a Claim hmm. Because it's elective, the best I could do is marry a girl with a weak claim. Thoughts?

 

[Silver Wizard]

By the time you have a majority of the electors you should be able to usurp the kingdom anyway.

 

[Kurblius]

By the time you have a majority of the electors you should be able to usurp the kingdom anyway.

It says I can't usurp the King title until the King has no territory - does that mean he just needs to be reduced to a titular kingdom by taking all is demesne counties? I'm also not really keen on doing it this way since I would't immediately get any new territory by usurpation. It just breaks up into smaller bits which would be gobbled up by its' neighbours in holy wars and such before I can get to all of them due to my threat level.

 

[Silver Wizard]

It says I can't usurp the King title until the King has no territory - does that mean he just needs to be reduced to a titular kingdom by taking all is demesne counties? I'm also not really keen on doing it this way since I would't immediately get any new territory by usurpation. It just breaks up into smaller bits which would be gobbled up by its' neighbours in holy wars and such before I can get to all of them due to my threat level.

Oh, he's a different religion, Catholic vs Orthodox, I forgot. In that case, usurping isn't very usefull.

I don't know how the rest of your campaign looks like, but if you are close to mending the schism, you could try that, as the king of Lombardy will switch to Orthodox, allowing you to usurp the title. And while you don't get territory by usurpation, it will collapse the kingdom, allowing you to offer vassalization to the then-independent dukes. If they have a half-decent opinion of you, they accept. If Lombardy doesn't remains Catholic after mending the schism you can Holy War them into oblivion.

When it comes to voting: AFAIK, the game doesn't really "get" that you are trying to get yourself elected. So there isn't really anything to be done there.

 

[Kurblius]

Oh, he's a different religion, Catholic vs Orthodox, I forgot. In that case, usurping isn't very usefull.

I don't know how the rest of your campaign looks like, but if you are close to mending the schism, you could try that, as the king of Lombardy will switch to Orthodox, allowing you to usurp the title. And while you don't get territory by usurpation, it will collapse the kingdom, allowing you to offer vassalization to the then-independent dukes. If they have a half-decent opinion of you, they accept. If Lombardy doesn't remains Catholic after mending the schism you can Holy War them into oblivion.

When it comes to voting: AFAIK, the game doesn't really "get" that you are trying to get yourself elected. So there isn't really anything to be done there.

I've considered the vassalization possibility. But doesn't different culture make vassalization prohibitive even if you max out his opinions and they have same religion AND they're de-jure? Also, not all rulers decide to convert...

 

[StarSword]

I've considered the vassalization possibility. But doesn't different culture make vassalization prohibitive even if you max out his opinions and they have same religion AND they're de-jure? Also, not all rulers decide to convert...

To vassalize peacefully, you essentially need two of:

• Same culture
• Same religion
• De jure liege

There are also pass/fail conditions, mainly high opinion and ruler rank (you have to be a king to absorb a count and an emperor to absorb a duke). But I've been able to vassalize independent counts I'm NOT the de jure king of, as long as we were friendly and we had the same religion and culture, Russian and Reformed Slavic in this case. I've also absorbed Anglo-Saxon Catholic petty kings as the Irish Catholic Emperor of Alba (Britannia).

EDIT: @Silver Wizard corrected me on the particulars, thanks.

 

[Kurblius]

To vassalize peacefully, you essentially need two of:

• Same culture
• Same religion
• De jure liege

There are also pass/fail conditions, mainly high opinion and ruler rank (you have to be a king to absorb a count and an emperor to absorb a duke). But I've been able to vassalize independent counts I'm NOT the de jure king of, as long as we were friendly and we had the same religion and culture, Russian and Reformed Slavic in this case. I've also absorbed Anglo-Saxon Catholic petty kings as the Irish Catholic Emperor of Alba (Britannia).

Interesting. Good to know. I guess I'll try this if I can't get elected.

Still, I would prefer to be elected.

Would putting my own dynasty as electors help? In my experience, I can't tell if members of my own dynasty are more or less likely to vote for me. Certainly they suffer an opinion penalty due to elective succession.

 

[Silver Wizard]

To vassalize peacefully, you essentially need two of:

• Same culture
• Same religion
• De jure liege

There are also pass/fail conditions, mainly high opinion and ruler rank (you have to be a king to absorb a count and an emperor to absorb a duke). But I've been able to vassalize independent counts I'm NOT the de jure king of, as long as we were friendly and we had the same religion and culture, Russian and Reformed Slavic in this case. I've also absorbed Anglo-Saxon Catholic petty kings as the Irish Catholic Emperor of Alba (Britannia).

Wrong.

You need three of:
--> Same culture
--> De jure liege
--> Decent opinion
--> Difference in rank > 1

And these block:
--> Different religion.
--> Target is king.
--> Not sharing a border.

Interesting. Good to know. I guess I'll try this if I can't get elected.

Still, I would prefer to be elected.

Would putting my own dynasty as electors help? In my experience, I can't tell if members of my own dynasty are more or less likely to vote for me. Certainly they suffer an opinion penalty due to elective succession.

My guess is that they will form a voting block, trying to elect a member of your dynasty. Not necessarily you, but a dynast.

Consider giving a vote to your heir, and vote for him.

 

[Kurblius]

My guess is that they will form a voting block, trying to elect a member of your dynasty. Not necessarily you, but a dynast.

Consider giving a vote to your heir, and vote for him.

That's a thought. I'd hate to land my heir but if he inherits Lombardy it would be worth it.

 

[Kurblius]

Starting to think it's bugged lol. Haven't landed my heir yet, but I now have a 5 de-jure duchies of Lombardy, a greek and orthodox, 2 are my dynasty, but every one of my vassals vote for themselves! It's like they're incapable of banding together... except if I reload the game from a save. Then it will show them supporting me... until I unpause the game then they all scatter once again haha. This is tied I think to another bug where if I don't have a son to select I have to re-nominate my successor of choice everytime I reload from a save.

 

[StarSword]

Wrong.

You need three of:
--> Same culture
--> De jure liege
--> Decent opinion
--> Difference in rank > 1

And these block:
--> Different religion.
--> Target is king.
--> Not sharing a border.



My guess is that they will form a voting block, trying to elect a member of your dynasty. Not necessarily you, but a dynast.

Consider giving a vote to your heir, and vote for him.

Thanks for the corrections.

 

[Dr Gonzo]

I don't think it's a bug. Your vassals don't see you as any more valid a choice to be King of Lombardy than anyone else. In fact it makes more sense for them to vote for themselves if only because they actually own lands within the kingdom. And what sensible vassal would vote for their liege to gain a title they might be able to seize for themselves?

 

[Kurblius]

I don't think it's a bug. Your vassals don't see you as any more valid a choice to be King of Lombardy than anyone else. In fact it makes more sense for them to vote for themselves if only because they actually own lands within the kingdom. And what sensible vassal would vote for their liege to gain a title they might be able to seize for themselves?

Yes but if they all vote for themselves than nobody gains. I'd expect at least the vassals to band together and choose someone within their same-culture group in order to prevent a Catholic Italian/Lombard from being the next Emperor. In fact, at this point all it would take would be just 3 of them to band together. :/

 

[Naughtius Maximus]

Do you have desmense land in the de jure territory?

If you do not they generally will not vote for you.

 

[Dr Gonzo]

Yes but if they all vote for themselves than nobody gains. I'd expect at least the vassals to band together and choose someone within their same-culture group in order to prevent a Catholic Italian/Lombard from being the next Emperor. In fact, at this point all it would take would be just 3 of them to band together. :/

Unfortunately this is just another area where it would be great if the game did more but is currently undeveloped. I'd love to see more mechanics around elective succession, such as using favours to buy votes.

 

[Kurblius]

Do you have desmense land in the de jure territory?

If you do not they generally will not vote for you.

Really. I didn't know this. Ok. I'll test it out in a bit. The Muslims have just launched a Jihad against me.

 

[Naughtius Maximus]

Yeah I ran into such shenanigans on an all elective monarchy run for Sicily/ERE. My capital was in Sicily/Capua in that run.

Unless my preferred heir had de jure land in Sicily the dukes in Sicily almost never voted for that guy. This was even if that guy was the apparent heir to the ERE and they themselves voted for him as ERE. It got irritating enough I spent one entire lifetime focused on boosting opinions to get Ultimogeniture (Primo at empire level without Conclave is too difficult.)

 

[Bernard95]

At least in my experience, elective succession results in a toss up between someone that's well liked and someone with claims unless you have some extenuating circumstances.

As others have somewhat mentioned, you would be far better off inviting someone over with a claim, marrying into the King's family, or mending the schism.

 

[Kurblius]

Yeah I ran into such shenanigans on an all elective monarchy run for Sicily/ERE. My capital was in Sicily/Capua in that run.

Unless my preferred heir had de jure land in Sicily the dukes in Sicily almost never voted for that guy. This was even if that guy was the apparent heir to the ERE and they themselves voted for him as ERE. It got irritating enough I spent one entire lifetime focused on boosting opinions to get Ultimogeniture (Primo at empire level without Conclave is too difficult.)

Actually that's almost precisely my game! Except I started off on Palermo. I couldn't understand why no one wanted to vote for me. Half the duchies were of my dynasty and good relations everywhere. I ended up having to declare war on the Emperor during a civil war. Really, I wish I had known about this earlier.

@Bernard95, I may actually have an extenuating circumstance you just mentioned. I'm defending in a holy war. Everyone loves me to death right now because of the +40 "defending against infidel" modifier. If they're ever going to vote for me now is the time. I'm thinking I could quickly revoke a territory in Italy, wait till I am the designated successor and then plot to assassinate the current King of Lombardy while I'm waging what will likely be a lengthy holy war. The only thing is that I'd have to give up a precious demesne with all its troops for a lowsy and poor wrong-culture territory right when I might need every man to avoid defeat. Decisions decisions.