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drjinichi

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So I am playing as High Chieftess Dobrava of Kiev with an end go to reform the faith and then create a feminist Slavic Union. The problem is that my lovely neighbor, the Magyar Nomad, makes a yearly pilgrim to Kiev and easily siege down my capital burning it and taking my children with them hostage every bloody time.

I tried fighting their 2,000 men light cav once, and bois my 4000 strong light infantry got teared down like they are fighting space marines.

Is there any thing I could do to beat them? I will eventually have to fight them to take the holysite, but if I could not beat them outnumbering them 2 to 1 I do not know what to do.

Also, what do you guys recommend I take for a reform apart from Enatic clan?
 

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Can you marry into his family for a NAP?
Or send a diplomat to Improve Relations, and/or Sway him.

Do this until you can get enough Archers and Light Infantry to outnumber him 4:1. Nomads are pretty OP at the start.
 

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Grow faster so you have more troops; join the Champions of Peru if you haven't.

Marry into them for sure if possible-- as nomads their heirs are lowborns so they will marry matrilinealy.

Then build your capital holding up for more heavy infantry.

As Slavic the special is stability + can navigate rivers-- it's amazing actually.
 

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Thanks guys. Managed to outnumber one 4 to 1 and burned their capital to the ground. Really satisfying.

Bad news is that I now border another Nomad blob and they keep on raiding, but it is not my capital so it is cool I guess?

Having a difficult deciding whether to go feminist for my genius daughter, or do something for my genius gay son. Fun games, but I think it will get boring fast when I eventually blob to be an emperor.
 

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Thanks guys. Managed to outnumber one 4 to 1 and burned their capital to the ground. Really satisfying.

Bad news is that I now border another Nomad blob and they keep on raiding, but it is not my capital so it is cool I guess?

Having a difficult deciding whether to go feminist for my genius daughter, or do something for my genius gay son. Fun games, but I think it will get boring fast when I eventually blob to be an emperor.

My biggest world conquest was from Chess Turov of Kiev-- there are two special empire you can form by decision now (Form the Slavic Union) and (Form the Russian Tsardom)
 

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no, the nomad space marines are more or less unbeatable until you have a proper army and even then there a hassle, NAP the ruler is the only way to defend yourself until you can get crack troops specifically to deal with them
 

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My biggest world conquest was from Chess Turov of Kiev-- there are two special empire you can form by decision now (Form the Slavic Union) and (Form the Russian Tsardom)

Nice, I am going for Empire of Rus, then, Slav U and finally Russian empire, knocking off 2 achievements (Russkaya Pravda and Lech, Czech, and Rus ).

Which reform would be the best for expansion? I think I am going either enatic or agnatic for open succession, but not sure about the rest.
 

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Nice, I am going for Empire of Rus, then, Slav U and finally Russian empire, knocking off 2 achievements (Russkaya Pravda and Lech, Czech, and Rus ).

Which reform would be the best for expansion? I think I am going either enatic or agnatic for open succession, but not sure about the rest.

If you're staying reformed pagan and want the best conquering power it's Secular (which makes you the Slavic pope and able to call your own great holy wars) and then I'd go with the Children of Perun special--

It gives you stability (no short reign penalty) and let's you navigate rivers with boars, which means you can raise your ships, then float them down the river to near Kiev and then quickly strike anywhere.
 

drjinichi

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If you're staying reformed pagan and want the best conquering power it's Secular (which makes you the Slavic pope and able to call your own great holy wars) and then I'd go with the Children of Perun special--

It gives you stability (no short reign penalty) and let's you navigate rivers with boars, which means you can raise your ships, then float them down the river to near Kiev and then quickly strike anywhere.

Nice, what would you suggest about Nature of the reform?
 

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Nice, what would you suggest about Nature of the reform?

Idk, I almost always go proselytizing-- if you plan to expand you'll want your empire converting along with you and it's the only one where your vassal send their chaplains to convert counties.

If you're planning to hit a particular size and then stop growing, Unyielding can be good.

I've never tried the rest yet- the "aggressive vassals" thing scared me away from warmongering, and no Great Holy Wars scared me away from the rest.
 

Dragatus

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Nice, I am going for Empire of Rus, then, Slav U and finally Russian empire, knocking off 2 achievements (Russkaya Pravda and Lech, Czech, and Rus ).

Which reform would be the best for expansion? I think I am going either enatic or agnatic for open succession, but not sure about the rest.

Best reforms depends on whether you intend to stay tribal forever or adopt feudalism. The main benefit of staying tribal is that you get to have a huge retinue fueled by prestige. Use Hunting Party which combines 100 Light Infantry with 50 Light Cavalry and has excellent synergy between the two unit types. It's only slightly weaker than a pure Light Cavalry nomad horde of equal size would be and much cheaper. It would be even better if you were West Slavic or South Slavic, but even for East Slavic it works the best.

If you want to be cheesy there is also the option of so-called "North Korea mode" (NK for short) where you personally hold all the counties and holding and ignore demesne limit. That actually works quite well as tribal because you get a penalty to gold income and levy size, but raid income, prestige gain, and retinue size are not affected so you can have an even bigger prestige retinue army. Most of the retinue cap comes from the basic hillfort, which will likely exist in most tribes already and if not is easy enough to build.

The downside of staying tribal is that you're stuck with Gavelkind ... unless you enable a better succession with your religious reform. So let's talk religious reform.

Nature

The big question here is whether you will have vassals or not. If you will the best choice is probably Proselytizing because it is the only nature which will make your vassals consistently convert their counties. Unyielding is also a viable choice, but vassals will only convert their provinces if they are zealous.

If you will go tribal NK, neither of those will do much for you though. You'll have to do all the proselytizing manually which is going to be a slow process and likely never complete. TAs a result you won't get much benefit from Unyielding and Proselytizing and Warmongering won't do much for you either because you have no vassals. Proselytizing does still make converting provinces faster, so it's not a complete waste, but you will get less out of it than normal. And you don't want Peaceful because it would get in the way of conquest. That leaves you with Dogmatic and Cosmopolitan and I'd probably pick the latter in most cases and Dogmatic if I wanted to get the high god synergy.

Leadership

This one is pretty simple:
- Temporal leadership is the default. It gives you full control over great holy war targets and your personal piety contributes to moral authority.
- Hierocratic is useful if you're playing with defensive pacts on. When the high priest declares a GHW it won't trigger the pacts against you because it's not you who is starting the war. But if you're playing with pacts off then it's inferior to Temporal, despite excommunications.
- Autonomous is for people who don't want to conquer the world and would rather get a stat bonus.
- Autocephalous is for the rare case where you have other independents of your religion and you want to help them stabilize their realm. This is extremely rare.

Doctrine

If you're staying tribal you'll need a better succession law. This applies to both NK and standard play. Your three options are Ancestor Veneration (works best in combination with Hierocratic leadership), Agnatic Clans, and Enatic Clans. Any of the three will work fine, so pick whichever you prefer.

The second doctrine doesn't matter all that much and you might as well go for flavor. Bloodthirsty Gods is fun and mixes well with tribalism. It'll eventually also give you more prestige for you tribal retinues which is nice. But you can really pick whichever you want.

If you want to go feudal you don't need a better succession law because you can already adopt Primogeniture. Meritocracy is nice because it allows you to select a favored child without having to use any sort of convoluted method, but it's not essential. You could also go for Ancestor Veneration and adopt Eldership, which allows you to pick anyone from your dynasty as heir.

The one thing to look out for are synergies. A few that I find noteworthy are:
- Daring + Sea-Bound gives you access to pirate traits which are the same as viking traits. Pretty fun, but Germanic pagans get that with only 1 doctrine for free.
- Dogmatic + Divine Marriage + Temporal makes the current religious head the high god of your religion. Pick it if you want to be worshiped as god-emperor (or god-empress).
- Dogmatic + Religious Tax is not really a synergy, but it is a strong combination for feudal realms and especially merchant republics.
 
Last edited:

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- Daring + Sea-Bound gives you access to pirate traits which are the same as viking traits. Pretty fun, but Germanic pagans get that with only 1 doctrine.

Germanics always have it, even post-reformation and regardless of doctrines (i.e. no need for Sons of Ragnarok). Other religions can also get them just by breeding in Ragnarr Lodbrok's bloodline. :) Though that bloodline tends to die off before I can grab it quite often... :(
 

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The main benefit of staying tribal is that you get to have a huge retinue fueled by prestige. Use Hunting Party which combines 100 Light Infantry with 50 Light Cavalry and has excellent synergy between the two unit types. It's only slightly weaker than a pure Light Cavalry nomad horde of equal size would be and much cheaper. It would be even better if you were West Slavic or South Slavic, but even for East Slavic it works the best.

Thanks for the very comprehensive post, Dragatus. Just curious, in the above sentence, you say "it would be even better if you were West Slavic or South Slavic..." Are you referring to having the cultural retinue of Hussar (LC) or Gusar (LC/HC), respectively, instead of the tribal retinue? Or is there a boost from being West/South Slavic that makes the Hunting Party even more effective?
 

Dragatus

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Germanics always have it, even post-reformation and regardless of doctrines (i.e. no need for Sons of Ragnarok). Other religions can also get them just by breeding in Ragnarr Lodbrok's bloodline. :) Though that bloodline tends to die off before I can grab it quite often... :(

Right, my bad. I mixed things up. Thank you for correcting me.

Thanks for the very comprehensive post, Dragatus. Just curious, in the above sentence, you say "it would be even better if you were West Slavic or South Slavic..." Are you referring to having the cultural retinue of Hussar (LC) or Gusar (LC/HC), respectively, instead of the tribal retinue? Or is there a boost from being West/South Slavic that makes the Hunting Party even more effective?

It's because they both get a tribal culture building that improves the defense of Light Cavalry. If you build it in your capital tribe the bonus applies to all your retinues too in addition to the levies from your capital. Adding some Hussars t your retinue doesn't hurt either, but you need to watch your gold, so the main reason is the building. Once upgraded to tier 4 it provides a pretty hefty +60% Light Cavalry defense bonus.

That said, the building is based on the culture of the province rather than the ruler. When you expand to the west in order to qualify for the Slavic Union you're likely to take some West Slavic tribes and you could move your capital to benefit from the culture building.
 

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Nice, I am going for Empire of Rus, then, Slav U and finally Russian empire, knocking off 2 achievements (Russkaya Pravda and Lech, Czech, and Rus ).

Which reform would be the best for expansion? I think I am going either enatic or agnatic for open succession, but not sure about the rest.

So I'm pretty late in a start as Rurik, reformed Slavic, formed Russia then Slavic Union game right now myself. A thing to watch out for is that order, though! As mentioned here:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...a-slavic-union-de-jure-inconsistency.1190730/

Empire of Russia requires you to hold Empire of Rus to create it, and Russia replaces Rus. Slavic Union destroys all held empires when created. So Rus -> Russia -> Slavic Union is doable, but I'm not sure Rus -> Slavic Union -> Russia is. And watch out for the de jure thing in that post I linked.

I went Unyielding, Children of Perun, Meritocracy, Temporal this time. Proselytizing would also be a good choice, but I found Unyielding absurdly strong militarily given how it synergizes with the whole heavy infantry and warrior lodge stuff, and as long as most vassal kings are Zealous and you keep your chaplain on county conversion duty the conversion rate isn't terrible.
 

Dragatus

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Creating the Slavic Union will destroy all held empires and it will make the empire of Rus titular (unless any non-Slavic kingdoms have already de jure drifted into it), but it doesn't deactivate it and there is nothing stopping you from (re)creating it. As long as you hold the capital (which is Kiev) you can create it any time.

So if you want to hold both the Slavic Union and the Tsardom of Russia you actually should form the Slavic Union first, so that forming it doesn't destroy the Tsardom. That said, for RP reasons I'd generally tend to only make one of the two. Having both doesn't really make narrative sense. One is about uniting all the Slavs under one banner and the other is about Russian dominance.
 

Duskwave

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Good to know. Once Russia is destroyed, it can't be recreated, so I guess I assumed, but that makes sense. (Also I tend to be very averse to multi-empire situations mostly because of past inheritance shenanigans anyway...)