How do democracies blob?

[Grallak]

So far we haven't really seen a single example of how democracies make puppets, say, UK and France beats Germany, then how would they puppet it? Would they merely install democracy or have two seperate German puppets? So far it has been very vaguely explained what democracies like the UK gain from defeating Germany, since they don't receive any IC but gain cheap access to German resources that the UK already has? I just don't really see WHY Britain would be interested per see of being a democracy if they don't gain anything from winning. What's their Raison d'étre?

Sure, defeating Germany and acquiring them to fight for you is nice and all, but what if two countries puppet it? Does the puppet work for both of them or just whoever contributed the most?

 

[Zaku]

Democracies can't make puppets.
There are a few expections like the British Raj, but in the war I think they can only liberate other nations and enforce democracy on them.

 

[LordOfWar16]

They cant really blob, since annexing non-core territory is very expensive. You'd have to swap to fascism or communism for that.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

Democracies cannot puppet nations by default, only via special events or National Focus tree choices; this was mentioned in the Soviet / communism dev diary. Communist nations have an easier time conquering and puppeting nations, and I think fascist countries can do it too, but democracies can't.

 

[Grallak]

Democracies can't make puppets.
There are a few expections like the British Raj, but in the war I think they can only liberate other nations and enforce democracy on them.

But in WWW we saw Japan that Japan was eaten by the US. Shouldn't there be something more than simply enforcing democracy?

I am simply at a lose of WHY the US would fight Japan just to enforce democracy. USA already has all the resources it needs so why does it want to start a war against Japan if it doesn't gain anything from it?

 

[Evan05]

Because by the mid-20th century, Democracies didn't expand like how Fascist or to a slightly lesser extent Communist nations wanted to.

Democracies can't puppet a nation by the way. I believe they get something called "Liberate" which is just installing an ultra-friendly government, though that is still ultimately independent.

 

[Zaku]

But in WWW we saw Japan that Japan was eaten by the US. Shouldn't there be something more than simply enforcing democracy?

You can demand states in a peace deal but they are more expensive for democracies.

If you want a new world order as USA you can go either commie or fascist.

 

[Evan05]

But in WWW we saw Japan that Japan was eaten by the US. Shouldn't there be something more than simply enforcing democracy?

Japan capitulated, it was not annexed. There is a difference.

And no, Democracies should not be able to annex massive swathes of land because that doesn't make sense for Democracies to do so by the game's time period. As Zaku said, they can take minor pieces of land here or there, but it is very expensive and makes full annexation impossible for any large country like say Germany.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

But in WWW we saw Japan that Japan was eaten by the US. Shouldn't there be something more than simply enforcing democracy?

USA can release Japan as an independent, democratic nation with (I assume) friendly ties to USA, but not as a puppet.

If USA re-conquers Europe from the Germans and releases those countries, they will not all be American puppets.

 

[uishax]

Wait, what does 'more expensive' mean? There are warscores in HOI4?

 

[Grallak]

Because by the mid-20th century, Democracies didn't expand like how Fascist or to a slightly lesser extent Communist nations wanted to.

Democracies can't puppet a nation by the way. I believe they get something called "Liberate" which is just installing an ultra-friendly government, though that is still ultimately independent.

Shouldn't nations that are ulturally close to eachother be able to annex eachother? Say if Sweden wants to be a democracy but still has managed to annex all other nordic countries. In any case, wouldn't it be better as a democracy to never enforce surrender on for example Germany, because then they wouldn't have access to Germany's IC.

 

[Zaku]

Wait, what does 'more expensive' mean? There are warscores in HOI4?

Yes. It is explained in the peace conferences DD.

 

[Grallak]

Japan capitulated, it was not annexed. There is a difference.

And no, Democracies should not be able to annex massive swathes of land because that doesn't make sense for Democracies to do so by the game's time period. As Zaku said, they can take minor pieces of land here or there, but it is very expensive and makes full annexation impossible for any large country like say Germany.

But why was Japan blue and under US control?

 

[Zaku]

But why was Japan blue and under US control?

Because USA invaded Japan. Japan capitulated but the war still went on because Germany was still winning. As long as there is a Major in the war on the opposing side you can't annex anything. Those happen when the last major of a faction gets defeated . After that happens a peace conference fires where your side can choose their demands.
You can read about it in the developer diaries.

 

[Evan05]

Shouldn't nations that are ulturally close to eachother be able to annex eachother? Say if Sweden wants to be a democracy but still has managed to annex all other nordic countries. In any case, wouldn't it be better as a democracy to never enforce surrender on for example Germany, because then they wouldn't have access to Germany's IC.

As far as pure military production and numbers go, it would be far more efficient to simply Liberate countries. When you annex a non-core province, you only get a tiny amount of manpower from it and industrial production is significantly hindered. But a puppet/liberated state can fully utilize the manpower and industry from it's core provinces, and if you properly trade resources with it, it can give you a lot of civilian factories which would've otherwise been damaged by partisan activity.

In practice, I can definitely see just keeping the land occupied as the player may not want to hand over control to the AI. This however is fixed by when you force all members of a faction to capitulate, it automatically opens up a screen to discuss surrender.

 

[Grallak]

Because USA invaded Japan. Japan capitulated but the war still went on because Germany was still winning. As long as there is a Major in the war on the opposing side you can't annex anything. Those happen when the last major of a faction gets defeated. After that happesn a peace conference fires.
You can read about it in the developer diaries.

What made japan capitulate to the US and not for example the UK?

 

[Zaku]

What made japan capitulate to the US and not for example the UK?

Because the US invaded them and not the UK.

 

[Grallak]

As far as pure military production and numbers go, it would be far more efficient to simply Liberate countries. When you annex a non-core province, you only get a tiny amount of manpower from it and industrial production is significantly hindered. But a puppet/liberated state can fully utilize the manpower and industry from it's core provinces, and if you properly trade resources with it, it can give you a lot of civilian factories which would've otherwise been damaged by partisan activity.

In practice, I can definitely see just keeping the land occupied as the player may not want to hand over control to the AI. This however is fixed by when you force all members of a faction to capitulate, it automatically opens up a screen to discuss surrender.

Why would it give me IC by trading with it?

 

[LordOfWar16]

But why was Japan blue and under US control?

They capitulated and mainland japan and the russian territories were occupied, not annexed. Japan was still in the game as the oversea territories didnt capitulate and TheLetterZ managed to invade New Zealand and Australia.

What made japan capitulate to the US and not for example the UK?

Because the USA invaded them, not the UK.

Why would it give me IC by trading with it?

You only get resources for buying or Civilian Factories for selling (cant really influence that) resources. You wont get military industry from it tho, but you can use the civilian factories to build more military ones. You cant convert civilian factories from trade, since trades arent permanent and can change/stop at any time and that will of course remove the civilian factories again.

 

[Grallak]

Because the US invaded them and not the UK.

I meant like, if we say UK the a bit of Japan and the US takes a big chunk, where would the parts which weren't occupied go? Would it be decided in a peace conference?