How can so many major game aspects be broken?

[TheAtreides84]

Then the fault lies in poor project management. Set realistic goals an work to achieve them. If it means lowering the potential of Stellaris then fair enough, if it results in a playable game.

I don't really agree with that. I would prefer for PDX to pursue ambitious goals, even if takes them a long time and some birth pains to achieve them. After all, that's how the company grew. They went for complex, sprawling geopolitical simulators instead of contenting themselves with the tried-and-true 4X formula. I think they need to push the boundaries, it's kinda the whole reason to play their games.

 

[Spacemadnesss]

I don't really agree with that. I would prefer for PDX to pursue ambitious goals, even if takes them a long time and some birth pains to achieve them. After all, that's how the company grew. They went for complex, sprawling geopolitical simulators instead of contenting themselves with the tried-and-true 4X formula. I think they need to push the boundaries, it's kinda the whole reason to play their games.

I don't think the optimal formula for growth and customer retention includes having your products go from "ok" to "unplayable" for a month+ at a time. Pushing the boundaries can be done in a realistic fashion, its a false dilemma to suggest companies cannot innovate without offloading the risk onto their customers. Videogames is one of the few industries where that would ever possibly fly and here we are dealing with those shortcomings. The whole affair is made worse by the fact PDX has no real competition because this type of game is such a niche product that there's very few if any similar alternatives to flock to. Which is something that would keep a company on their toes.

 

[TheAtreides84]

I don't think the optimal formula for growth and customer retention includes having your products go from "ok" to "unplayable" for a month+ at a time. Pushing the boundaries can be done in a realistic fashion, its a false dilemma to suggest companies cannot innovate without offloading the risk onto their customers. Videogames is one of the few industries where that would ever possibly fly and here we are dealing with those shortcomings. The whole affair is made worse by the fact PDX has no real competition because this type of game is such a niche product that there's very few if any similar alternatives to flock to. Which is something that would keep a company on their toes.

I don't think games selling around a million copies can be considered niche on PC. Grognard wargames selling in the thousands are niche products, and you still get a lot of them from different companies (just check The Wargamer). It's more that PDX has cornered the market.

 

[Madzai]

They went for complex, sprawling geopolitical simulators instead of contenting themselves with the tried-and-true 4X formula

Well, it's all and good with "complex, sprawling geopolitical simulators", but it's quite obvious they are getting entangled in them. As each series progress with their DLCs, they games start to contradict itself in various features and bugs and issues continue to drag on. And games like HoI, even after for fourth iteration makes very poor job at recreating that WW2 was. I'm not saying games are bad or not interesting, but their issues are obvious. Also in case of Stellaris there is issue about game looking like "sprawling and complex", but most of it is due poor UI and rules that don't make much sense. At it's core the game isn't that difficult.

Oh, and there is always problem with AI, which is either obviously dumb, or the game have so many restrictions against player( to compensate for AI), so it doesn't even look like you fighting against it, but against game rules.

In the end, i think PDX released a ton of great games, but now, the foundation of those games start to crumble. It's the same issues again and again, with each title. Something need to be done, so their games stop falling apart due to AI or after adding a features in DLC.

 

[TheAtreides84]

Well, it's all and good with "complex, sprawling geopolitical simulators", but it's quite obvious they are getting entangled in them. As each series progress with their DLCs, they games start to contradict itself in various features and bugs and issues continue to drag on. And games like HoI, even after for fourth iteration makes very poor job at recreating that WW2 was. I'm not saying games are bad or not interesting, but their issues are obvious. Also in case of Stellaris there is issue about game looking like "sprawling and complex", but most of it is due poor UI and rules that don't make much sense. At it's core the game isn't that difficult.

Oh, and there is always problem with AI, which is either obviously dumb, or the game have so many restrictions against player( to compensate for AI), so it doesn't even look like you fighting against it, but against game rules.

In the end, i think PDX released a ton of great games, but now, the foundation of those games start to crumble. It's the same issues again and again, with each title. Something need to be done, so their games stop falling apart due to AI or after adding a features in DLC.

Sure, you're right on most accounts. But I don't think that simply giving up on complexity and new features is a good way to solve the problem. I think a better solution would be releasing fewer games and focusing more on each one of them.

 

[exi123]

Sure, you're right on most accounts. But I don't think that simply giving up on complexity and new features is a good way to solve the problem. I think a better solution would be releasing fewer games and focusing more on each one of them.

They should never give up their complexity for their games. I dont know if you know the Total War franchise, they started to casualize their games 10 years ago and lost many many of their old playerbase on the new games. Just compare "Rome Total War" with "Total War: Rome 2". For me, as a strategist, the old one is still more fun to play even with the old graphics from 2003.

Factorio, one of the best rated games on steam, plays completely without 3D graphics. Great gameplay, an awesome and fast dev-team with daily fixes after major patches and an outstanding modding community and compability. I mention this because their dev-team has roughly the same size as the stellaris team...

 

[~Robbie]

Nah, they'll fix it. They'll just take till kingdom come. I have accepted it like a fact of life by now. Taxes and PDX games needing up to three years to be in a reasonably complete, playable state. On the plus side, you'll enjoy discounts if you wait that long.

Discounts if you ignore the fact that it will have a mountain of borderline mandatory DLC.

 

[PainlessDK]

If youre in presentation mode, as a responsible, surely you cover such things up by trying not to notice it.
Iam pretty sure they know and knew, and they are working on in since then, but must be a pretty hart one to find.

Yes, you're right. Sorry, it was late; my brain wasn't working properly. To say that they didn't know or knew would be naive.

 

[PainlessDK]

Discounts if you ignore the fact that it will have a mountain of borderline mandatory DLC.

DLC's are just a "clever" way of procrastinating for PDX and "sweeping bugs under the rug". Yes, some bugfixes may be adressed as well, but since we still have a fairly buggy game after quite a few DLC's I'd say ... 'there's something screwy going on here.....'

 

[Trueno33]

Having to make such a complex game over dozens of different dlc combinations. Welcome to a programmer's hell, I guess. They like it rough, it seems

 

[Xrybnix]

Yeah, the current state of the game certainly isn't providing great long-term playability. I also wonder how some things are so broken and still not getting attention. The AI is the obvious one, the space mob system is another one. With the current balance, 600-1000 fleet strength for the mobs is just too large. Engaging them in the early game is economical suicide and even mid game it still is more often than not an obviously bad idea. Hence the space mob system as a whole doesn't really "work" right now.

 

[klopkr]

Honestly if they just reworked their schedules to start projects and release them a month earlier this literally would not be a problem.

 

[Sayakus]

I actually given my opinion in my own separate topic.
At the moment there is only disappointment, all we can do for now is to rely on modders.
PDX should buy Glavius and other guy from holiday fixes mod really big cake as they are saving them big time at the moment. (What is this Bethesda ?)
We can hope this will teach PDX managers lesson.

 

[Vanhal]

I don't really agree with that. I would prefer for PDX to pursue ambitious goals, even if takes them a long time and some birth pains to achieve them. After all, that's how the company grew. They went for complex, sprawling geopolitical simulators instead of contenting themselves with the tried-and-true 4X formula. I think they need to push the boundaries, it's kinda the whole reason to play their games.

I'm kinda afraid they will get the absolutely wrong message this time. Currently, Stellaris is being harshly negbombed in Steam. After the most ambitious patch ever. So whomever decides up there could easily decide people don't like ambitious. Especially that most bombers are old players, new ones don't seem to have any problem. And the future development will start to look like EU4.

 

[exi123]

This wont tell them any lesson if the revenue is still okay for the money they are investing in it. I think no dev who is working with his heart on projects like stellaris is happy with the current state or the release.
We have to go the hard way like the cusotmers of bigger game studios rn: Do not buy their products. Thats the way the market reacts to bad products. The start is a bad rating on steam for the game so no new customers will buy and the next one is for the existing customers: Do not buy the quarterly paid updates called DLC.

Thats not the way i want it to be, i like to pay for good games, patches and content. But im waiting since the 7th December (where i reached the first lategame) for a playable game. Thats more than one month now...

 

[TheAtreides84]

This wont tell them any lesson if the revenue is still okay for the money they are investing in it. I think no dev who is working with his heart on projects like stellaris is happy with the current state or the release.
We have to go the hard way like the cusotmers of bigger game studios rn: Do not buy their products. Thats the way the market reacts to bad products. The start is a bad rating on steam for the game so no new customers will buy and the next one is for the existing customers: Do not buy the quarterly paid updates called DLC.

Thats not the way i want it to be, i like to pay for good games, patches and content. But im waiting since the 7th December (where i reached the first lategame) for a playable game. Thats more than one month now...

But this isn't a bad game. This is a good game marred by terrible QA and hasty releases. Big difference. I don't think if would be fair to people to try and convince them not to buy Stellaris. They would miss on a very good game. Warn them, tell them to wait, sure, but review bombing is a terrible tactic because customers can't easily understand what's behind the aggregated score. Games have been review bombed because they didn't have a chinese translation, I mean.

 

[exi123]

But this isn't a bad game. This is a good game marred by terrible QA and hasty releases. Big difference. I don't think if would be fair to people to try and convince them not to buy Stellaris. They would miss on a very good game. Warn them, tell them to wait, sure, but review bombing is a terrible tactic because customers can't easily understand what's behind the aggregated score. Games have been review bombed because they didn't have a chinese translation, I mean.

And thats the point. We are all here because we really like the game. I want to recommend the game to friends. I want to buy DLCs for new features and further development. I like the idea of 2.2 and the new changes. The game has not to be perfect on release, but the current state is unacceptable at any point. When things like this happens the company loses so much trust to their players that i have to ask myself: Is the Q4 profit with that rushed release really worthy for the shareholders? I dont think so... And we all know the phrase: "Damage is done." You cant revert it.

 

[PainlessDK]

I actually given my opinion in my own separate topic.
At the moment there is only disappointment, all we can do for now is to rely on modders.
PDX should buy Glavius and other guy from holiday fixes mod really big cake as they are saving them big time at the moment. (What is this Bethesda ?)
We can hope this will teach PDX managers lesson.

Despite the fact that PDX is blessed with skilled modders; it is never a modder's job to fix a broken or buggy game. No matter how 'mod-friendly' a game might be.
And yes, I too want to play my damn game without having to suffer the fate of the stuttering from hell. (or worse)

But you know, I'd really a lot rather (cool sentence) have Paradox fix the core game - where all bugs and problems probably come from instead of 'making new innovative sollutions and dlc's for future generations to come'... And then I'd gladly wait until the damn game is finished. (Not Bethesda finished - but really really finished) So that it is a joy to play also beyond 2250 (where my stuttering (only in-game) usually starts). I'm sorry. I meant to comment not to start a rant from the saltmines...

 

[Mikhail_Mengsk]

And thats the point. We are all here because we really like the game. I want to recommend the game to friends. I want to buy DLCs for new features and further development. I like the idea of 2.2 and the new changes. The game has not to be perfect on release, but the current state is unacceptable at any point. When things like this happens the company loses so much trust to their players that i have to ask myself: Is the Q4 profit with that rushed release really worthy for the shareholders? I dont think so... And we all know the phrase: "Damage is done." You cant revert it.

True.

But i don't understand revbombing Stellaris base game this much. It's the Megacorp DLC that should be revbombed, imho.

 

[Alastor]

True.

But i don't understand revbombing Stellaris base game this much. It's the Megacorp DLC that should be revbombed, imho.

If you buy the Stellaris main game without the Megacorp DLC will your performance actually be acceptable? Will your AI win Nobel prizes? Will your Prethoryn actually purge?