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GabrielLoki

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I'm desperately trying to convert my tribal holdings into feudal, just so that I can get rid of gavelkind succession. But I've only got low tribal organization, I'm in poor health, and I'm 60 years old.

If I could just switch to feudal, I could change the succession law to tanistry and be done with it. Till then, I'm stuck with gavelkind, and I'm about to lose my entire demesne.
 

sigeena

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Are you on elective gavelkind?

If you're on plain normal gavelkind, it's not too difficult to manage your demesne. The main trick is to keep it within a de-jure duchy of a de-jure kingdom. Normal gavelkind is somewhat good for its higher demesne limit as well.

Elective gavelkind? It's horrid.
 

Killzone250

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Easy way is to go to religion screen and appoint all your sons apart from your heir as replacement bishops, they are not allowed to inherit. I trained all my non-heir sons in stewardship so when they become vassel-bishops they will love you more than the Pope and pay loads of Church tax.
 
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Thrake

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Early game, it's not too hard to keep some control over inheritance even in elective gavelkind. What you must absolutely not do, is to have a potential heir raised with diplomacy education. Those with diplo education will almost always be elected. So what I personnaly do is that I raise all of them as military education; this combines well with tribal large desmesne and heavy relisance on troops (raid,...). This way the AI usually have mixed feelings about your heirs, so there are commonly ties beetween several of your sons (or even a son with one less vote) that your vote will be the determining factor.

Once your dynasty grows, it becomes troublesome because even if you raised uncles with martial education, sons get less and less likely to be elected; if other dynasts are landed too, they will educate some of their heirs with diplo education which will overide your decades or centuries of good education.

That was for heir control.

Now for land control:
give lands that you don't want to children that you don't want as heirs. If you feed each enough lands, then whatever is left will be for your chosen heir (giving one duchy with one county within that duchy to each son you don't want as primary heir works well unless you hands out tons of duchies; if you don't have enough duchies for each son then some can do with just counties). If your heir is not a son though, it kind of brakes the whole strategy because he will only inherit your top title while the rest will go to your unlanded non primary heir son. So basically if your demesne will fracture too much at your death, you must start conquering and handing out titles to sons. Always do your best to keep your capital duchy with all counties under your direct control as that one is easily passed upon your main heir integrally upon inheritance (revoke after inheritance if some of your brothers have inherited counties within that duchy).
 

Toast_thief

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If Tribal and Gavelkind I would suggest only taking concubines until an heir is produced, take three and set the other two aside whenever one is pregnant. If the child is male set all concubines aside, if female take all concubines back and keep ploughing until one is pregnant again. Repeat until a male heir is produced.

It's a dangerous strategy because the premature death of an heir at the wrong time can put the dynasty at risk, but it will ensure your demesne or realm isn't broken up by your competing male issue.
 

GabrielLoki

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So, currently I'm the petty king of connacht, and have a few counties outside of that territory... I have 5 sons, all of whome have the genius trait, and 2 daughters, one of whom i married off to the king of bavaria.
I'm a cathar, and so is my entire family.

The chiefdoms are all under my direct control, at least for now.
 

Deathshead419

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You could take a stab at the standard cure for messy inheritance: Murder
 

josefrees

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Once you get these generations sorted out, you may want to consider just taking old barren wives and concubines for stats and prestige and getting heirs through seduction and legitimizing bastards. Pick the best bastard and legitimize them. Your chosen dies legitimize another
 
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StarSword

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Dragatus

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So, currently I'm the petty king of connacht, and have a few counties outside of that territory... I have 5 sons, all of whome have the genius trait, and 2 daughters, one of whom i married off to the king of bavaria.
I'm a cathar, and so is my entire family.

The chiefdoms are all under my direct control, at least for now.

If you have only a single duchy (petty kingdom), then it isn't too bad as all the titles likely stay within your realm and you'll have some strong claims to the counties, which allows you to revoke them without upsetting other vassals. Well, at least it doesn't under feudalism.

Then you can work on going feudal and switching to Tanistry. At worst you'd have to endure one generation of re-consolidating titles.

Early game, it's not too hard to keep some control over inheritance even in elective gavelkind. What you must absolutely not do, is to have a potential heir raised with diplomacy education. Those with diplo education will almost always be elected. So what I personnaly do is that I raise all of them as military education; this combines well with tribal large desmesne and heavy relisance on troops (raid,...). This way the AI usually have mixed feelings about your heirs, so there are commonly ties beetween several of your sons (or even a son with one less vote) that your vote will be the determining factor.

Once your dynasty grows, it becomes troublesome because even if you raised uncles with martial education, sons get less and less likely to be elected; if other dynasts are landed too, they will educate some of their heirs with diplo education which will overide your decades or centuries of good education.

Or you can give diplomatic education to the one son whom you want as heir. Without Conclave you can swap guardians at the last moment before a child comes of age and they'll get educated based on the education of their new guardian. So you can give sons to guardians with military education, then when you see one that is turning out well you assign him to a guardian with Grey Eminence when the boy is 15 and he should get a great diplomacy score and get elected.

I don't have Conclave, so I'm not sure if it works like this, but I think there you can wait with selecting the type of education you want your child to have. So while you could pick what education the child should get at age 12, you can wait until they're 15 and then decide if you want that one as heir and pick diplomatic education over military. Of course this is additionally complicated by the fact that children will do differently well with different educations based on what childhood traits they had. If you have a boy you'd likeas heir, but he was Rowdy and Willful then you're better off giving him a military education anyway.
 

Iron Chariots

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You're not allowed to plot to kill your own child.
In extreme cases, you can still openly murder them. Probably not a great idea with the change that causes some of your tyranny to roll over to your heir though.
 
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Dragatus

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Extreme indeed. That requires imprisonment and execution so wiithout an excuse that's 50 points of tyranny for 30 years.
 
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StarSword

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Extreme indeed. That requires imprisonment and execution so wiithout an excuse that's 50 points of tyranny for 30 years.
Not to mention Kinslayer.
 

Iron Chariots

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Extreme indeed. That requires imprisonment and execution so wiithout an excuse that's 50 points of tyranny for 30 years.

Not to mention Kinslayer.

Indeed. It worked much better when tyranny died with each ruler... by the end of a long reign you can easily eat that much tyranny. Now, even if you can get the extras excommunicated and thus rightfully imprison them, execution is quite painful, and once you have them imprisoned you may as well have them take the vows instead.

If you can't pull that off, there is always the intrigue focus, but then you have to hope RNGesus blesses you with the murder event.
 

GabrielLoki

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So, Pepin Karling, the current king of west francia, has been excommunicated and is embroiled in a war with his neighbors, especially the king of middle francia... How hard would it be to get him to convert to catharism?

I ask cause I could use an ally in holy wars... ^_^
 

divsky

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Expand hard and give all of your sons land. If you're tribal there's basically no limit to how hard you can expand. If all your sons are already landed when you die, your demense should stay intact.

All these other suggestions are basically just abusing the system to cheat.
 

Iron Chariots

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Expand hard and give all of your sons land. If you're tribal there's basically no limit to how hard you can expand. If all your sons are already landed when you die, your demense should stay intact.

All these other suggestions are basically just abusing the system to cheat.
To be fair, abusing the system to cheat is kind of how the Capets got to establish primogeniture in the first place, so...
 
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GabrielLoki

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So, I've got tanistry, I've... got an heir who's married to his first cousin. (Ick...) I've got feudalism, but I've got a tribal holding. Is there some easy way to convert my personal holdings to feudal?