How can I grant landed titles I don't have?

[GabrielLoki]

I've been told time and time again that the best way to get control of a duchy or county in a christian realm, I need to invite a noble with a strong claim and land them...

It's the "land them" part that trips me up... Because all my landed titles are tied up, and I'd rather not give away titles from my own demesne....

What about baronies won from holy wars? Would they count?

 

[hagagaga]

If the pretender is your vassal, you can press his claim.

You can't give away titles that you don't have. You give him a title from your demesne and press his claim. That's how it works.

 

[thevmag]

Baronies do work. If all my land's tied up and I don't want to give away anything too valuable, barons usually have smaller dynasties and can be genocided much more easily. Bam, free opening, and you don't have to waste a whole county.

 

[Sirrobert1]

Yes Baronies are fine. Any level of vassal works.
You can also give them a county in your personal duchy, then plot to revoke it after you pressed the claim.

 

[Harassercat]

Edit: I thought baronies wouldn't work but I suppose they do - didn't know that.

About having the land to grant.... I think that in general it's good to find ways to cycle titles within your realm back into your hands. My main way of doing this is to systematically root out other dynasties than my own from the realm and then letting inheritance sort out the rest. For example, if my dynasty controls all the main titles in the realm, I can use elective succession to pick heirs that hold a lot of land, giving me a large surplus of land upon succession that can be handed out at the beginning of each reign. Holy war is of course another easy way to gain control of a bunch of titles.

 

[thevmag]

Baronies wouldn't help you in any way. If the newly gained title is higher than what the claimant already had (e.g. count gains duchy) then the claimant will make the new title his primary title (the count becomes a duke) and then not only will he be an independent ruler and not your vassal, but he will also keep the land you gave him, effectively removing it from your realm. So you ideally need to first give the claimant an equal or higher title within your realm (make him duke or king before he gains the new duchy).

That's... not really how it works, at all. I've given baronies and counties to people I intend to push claims for, and they become my vassal duke or king. They only time they become independent is if their new title is equal to yours -- a king cannot be subservient to a king, after all; but you can easily make your baron a duke if you're king, or turn your count into a loyal king if you're emperor.

 

[Harassercat]

That's... not really how it works, at all. I've given baronies and counties to people I intend to push claims for, and they become my vassal duke or king. They only time they become independent is if their new title is equal to yours -- a king cannot be subservient to a king, after all; but you can easily make your baron a duke if you're king, or turn your count into a loyal king if you're emperor.

Yeah thanks for clearing it up, it was getting it all mixed up in my head. CKII is so simple yet so ridiculously complicated in a way.

 

[RagingJaws]

That's... not really how it works, at all. I've given baronies and counties to people I intend to push claims for, and they become my vassal duke or king. They only time they become independent is if their new title is equal to yours -- a king cannot be subservient to a king, after all; but you can easily make your baron a duke if you're king, or turn your count into a loyal king if you're emperor.

You know, that has me thinking on a way to improve the claim pushing system. What if pushing claims for a title claimant, not landed or of your dynasty, one step below yours creates a tribute state (for double threat generation of course) rather than a new ruler for said independent state? I can already see situations where I could meddle in other kingdoms affairs without having to expand my own realm or sacrifice a daughter/son on the marriage altar of diplomacy.

 

[Sergeant Flutter]

You know, that has me thinking on a way to improve the claim pushing system. What if pushing claims for a title claimant, not landed or of your dynasty, one step below yours creates a tribute state (for double threat generation of course) rather than a new ruler for said independent state? I can already see situations where I could meddle in other kingdoms affairs without having to expand my own realm or sacrifice a daughter/son on the marriage altar of diplomacy.

We have a genius here, folks.