Just checked If can call Ottomans to war, nope they are over 40k in debt. I cant imagine how ai can get this much debt? Especially stronk empire like Otto. Any ideas?
How can ai nation be 40 000 in debt???
- Thread starter Mjolnersson
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The AI tends to spend 1000's of ducats on mercenaries by taking loans. If the country has a poor foundation or gets weaker in some way following the war they can fail to pay back the interest creating more loans which create more interest. This eventually leads to bankruptcy once the inflation gets too high.
This is especially common when a country gets cut in half as all the loans they took will still be at their original amounts while the country now has half the economic power.
This is especially common when a country gets cut in half as all the loans they took will still be at their original amounts while the country now has half the economic power.
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Shouldn't it be more difficult to obtain loans, the more you are in debt?
Perhaps the AI should see its own debt as an important incentive to finish wars (especially offensive ones,) before it reaches such ridiculous negative amounts.
Perhaps the AI should see its own debt as an important incentive to finish wars (especially offensive ones,) before it reaches such ridiculous negative amounts.
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Barrack Hussein Ibn Osman ascended to the throne and bailed out all the failing Estates?
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I think it's time we got a "National Debt" modifier for peace-ing out.
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If a human player considers this as a factor, why shouldn't the AI?
Maybe I'm wrong on this, but I think it's a small change for the better.
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I agree that financial considerations should be a factor in the AI deciding when to peace out. It certainly is one for human players, and it certainly was one for nations throughout history.
I think the reason they don't do it is because it makes it really easy to beat up poor nations and take their crap, which would mean that existing nations that were already very powerful and wealthy would have yet another advantage. I'm fine with this because it seems to me like financial strength is a little underemulated right now. Small trading nations tend to get smacked by big cash-poor blobs that shouldn't have the money to expand so aggressively.
I think the reason they don't do it is because it makes it really easy to beat up poor nations and take their crap, which would mean that existing nations that were already very powerful and wealthy would have yet another advantage. I'm fine with this because it seems to me like financial strength is a little underemulated right now. Small trading nations tend to get smacked by big cash-poor blobs that shouldn't have the money to expand so aggressively.
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i agree a malus in peace if you ask for money is a good improvement in the right direction.
maybe events that fix the debt at a huge cost before the bakrutcy event is also desirable.
maybe events that fix the debt at a huge cost before the bakrutcy event is also desirable.
Events that propose increasingly desperate financial chicanerywhich reduces the debt load but mounting maluses in other areas. For example devaluing the currency to pay off the debt while mightily offending the burghers, or emergency taxes that could trigger peasant revolts, or expelling the Jews and stealing their stuff which severely reduces tax and trade f and Tolerance of Heathens for 2-3 decades as your economic and government infrastructures suffer without the Jewish scribes and policy makers that helped them operate. Or put a John Blunt/South Sea Company style situation in the game with massive financial chicanery that eventually winds up moving the debt around and destroying confidence in the country rather than fixing anything.
I know they do some of that, but it should probably be more prominent .
I know they do some of that, but it should probably be more prominent .
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They must be close to bankruptcy, I think it would be worth breaking the alliance and taking them out when they are bankrupt.
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How would you emulate what happened to England in the 18th century when their war debt was about to bury them and they had to turn to one of history's greatest scoundrels to find a way to bail them out? Is there a way to put a John Blunt style event in the game to emulate the South Seas Company situation, where a massive amount of debt was about to come due, and a great scoundrel makes a lot of profit moving the debt around, fleeces millions including the King, but actually also saves the nation's finances by allowing them to defer the debt payments?
So if your total debt rises to a certain multiple of overall income, a private banker arrives with a scheme to defer or refinance the debt, and each time he appears he gives you a new option to allow you to defer your debt (reduced interest, moves the date for repayment of the debt further down the road) for a very "reasonable" concession on your part, some of which even benefits you in the short term, maybe it increases Mercantilism or Burgher favor each time as well as a small cost in monarch points, a slight kick upwards to Inflation, and the deferral of the debt.
Then, if you haven't paid off over a 10 year event cycle, the chain culmantes in a collapse of the "bubble," with some really hideous maluses if you haven't paid the debt off in the meantime? Something like -3 stab, +10 inflation, and your relationship with the Burghers going right in the tank tipping off the prospect of a burgher revolt disaster? Something like that. I'm no modding genius but I think that could work and would be a fascinating narrative event chain.
So if your total debt rises to a certain multiple of overall income, a private banker arrives with a scheme to defer or refinance the debt, and each time he appears he gives you a new option to allow you to defer your debt (reduced interest, moves the date for repayment of the debt further down the road) for a very "reasonable" concession on your part, some of which even benefits you in the short term, maybe it increases Mercantilism or Burgher favor each time as well as a small cost in monarch points, a slight kick upwards to Inflation, and the deferral of the debt.
Then, if you haven't paid off over a 10 year event cycle, the chain culmantes in a collapse of the "bubble," with some really hideous maluses if you haven't paid the debt off in the meantime? Something like -3 stab, +10 inflation, and your relationship with the Burghers going right in the tank tipping off the prospect of a burgher revolt disaster? Something like that. I'm no modding genius but I think that could work and would be a fascinating narrative event chain.
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The AI will, without question, fight a massively destructive war which will completely collapse their economy and leave them incapable of defending themselves purely to spite their opposition in a war (which is often another AI - watch the absurd rise and fall states in the HRE to see just how bad it can get). The AI has no care for trifling matters like the economy or the potential impending doom from one of its other neighbours, all it cares about is how much land it's lost, how high the war score is, and how long the war has gone on.
To put it into perspective, I once bankrupt all but one of the top ten military powers (I was the one non-bankrupt power) in a single war by merely triggering a coalition war and then not attacking the end result was the total destruction of at least three of the major powers (they lost all gains they had made over the last two years and were forced to release considerable portions of their homeland - Austrians lost Styria, Bohemia lost the ENTIRE northern half of Germany and Spain lost catalonia). Now granted, I was a powerful France, however it should not be as simple as just not accepting a white peace in a war to trigger a total collapse of the entirety of Europe; because 1) the AI shouldn't willingly throw away hundreds of thousands of troops for no gains and 2) after losing hundreds of thousands of troops the AI should be pretty much desperate to surrender at almost any cost. Particularly if the enemy nation still has a standing army in the seven figures region vs a coalition with an army in the hundreds of thousands.
This would also solve the silly situations which tend to spring up when large alliances of major powers fight, and half of them collapse because they can't make any gains before their economy collapses.
To put it into perspective, I once bankrupt all but one of the top ten military powers (I was the one non-bankrupt power) in a single war by merely triggering a coalition war and then not attacking the end result was the total destruction of at least three of the major powers (they lost all gains they had made over the last two years and were forced to release considerable portions of their homeland - Austrians lost Styria, Bohemia lost the ENTIRE northern half of Germany and Spain lost catalonia). Now granted, I was a powerful France, however it should not be as simple as just not accepting a white peace in a war to trigger a total collapse of the entirety of Europe; because 1) the AI shouldn't willingly throw away hundreds of thousands of troops for no gains and 2) after losing hundreds of thousands of troops the AI should be pretty much desperate to surrender at almost any cost. Particularly if the enemy nation still has a standing army in the seven figures region vs a coalition with an army in the hundreds of thousands.
This would also solve the silly situations which tend to spring up when large alliances of major powers fight, and half of them collapse because they can't make any gains before their economy collapses.
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By 1550 or so in most of my games the loans I can get are over 1000 gold, and typically the Ottos have very good income, and that's part of what your loans are attached to. Now, if you wipe their army a couple of times, without taking too much territory, they can easily spend their way to that. What the AI does, but I never do, is hire merc Cav and merc Cannons, which are hideously expensive.
I used to like making them go bankrupt, but with Revanchism, it's no longer as much fun.
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What this means is we need to end the omniscient bank which can give out infinite loans at the same interest rate no matter what the worldly credit crunch looks like.
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I wonder if the Greeks were consulted on economic policy for EU4 AI.
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