How about the pope

[Will Steel]

There is also this thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Republic_(1849)

I.e. Pope wasn't immune from the revolutionary wave across Europe. When the city demanded local government and autonomy, he refused. They rose up, took over not just Rome but (in theory) almost the entire Papal States, and the Pope fled south. They also gained Giuseppe Garibaldi's help.

The new republic implemented considerable modern reforms and freedoms as well as benevolent economic rules. They were ruled by three Triumvirs who declared that Pope could remain as the head of Catholics as usual and come back, but not directly command the city as he did before. It lasted a few months until (soon to be) Napoleon III's troops from France landed on their shores, besieged them twice and put an end to the republic.

Who knows, in alt-history France would've not invaded them and helped the Pope (both Austria and Sicily were also going to invade, but Austria was busy in Milan and Sicily was blocked by Garibaldi). Which meant the Pope could eventually come back to Rome under a compromise. A HM's Government Papal State with a theoretical restoration of the old Roman Republic as the actual power behind the Papacy, to speak in Victoria terms. Free to unify Italy and expand beyond across the world, all under its own name.

Could be really fun to play I think.

 

[DominusNovus]

I’d love to do a playthrough where Italy unites in a loose confederation with the Pope as the Head of State,

 

[cmdrk33n]

Don't forget that this is post Napoleonic world so Christianity overall was much weaker politically.

 

[steve213]

The Pope how many divisions does he have?

He had enough to drive the red army out of Poland

 

[Revshawn]

Imagine a world where the Pope rules Italy. You're told every day that you are so lucky to live in the heart of Christiandom. That there is no greater good being done on Earth than with the Italian people, the true successors to the Romans, and that there is no place closer to God on this Earth. And that it's your duty to spread Christ's love to the four corners of the Earth.

And every night at 7PM, every man turns to the TV to watch the opening of God's favorite news program:

 

[Zalthor]

Is there even a theocratic goverment type? I have not seen this mentioned/listed anywhere, not even in the Everything We Know thread.

 

[geogus]

About the papal zouaves, who were a foreign legion under the papal states assembled to resist italian unification, i found this info i d like to share.

"Initially, the French and Belgian unit was mostly composed of young aristocrats and gentlemen. Later on, the unit was truly international, and by May 1868 numbered 4,592 men. A British volunteer, Joseph Powell, noted in his account of his service with the Papal Zouaves that at least three individuals of African descent and one person from China served in the Zouaves."

In my reseach i found that there were volunteers from major major european nation
Spanish, portuguese, russians, italians, malteses, russians, poles, english, scotts, irish, germans, austrians, and so far

There were also african soldiers, circassians, asians, mexicans, americans, peruvians, argentines, canadians...

This is very interisting, an papal foreign legion with chatolic migrants is something that could add a lot of flavor to the papal states

 

[Tibi088]

The problem with a pope led Italy would be how to reconcile that with leadership of the church:
1. Can italy accept that its head of state is chosen by the college of cardinals and its not necesserily an italian?
2. Italy had ambitions and pretensions of being a great power. The Pope being the head of state to such a country would be a very different thing for the church than the pope being the head of state to a largely unimportant italian small state. For example: How would the largetly catholic Austria react to the pope being the leader of Italy during their conflicts?

The point is being head of the catholic church and head to an european great power in this age are most likely incompatible with each other. If Paradox really wanted to implement or give a chance to a Pope led Italy there should be a lot of events to simulate this - and frankly there are much more important things to do so even while the papal state is in the game and most likely playable I dont think it will be done justice to - it would need too much effort for too little gain. But if it was ever done properly it couod be potentially one of the most unique gaming experiences vicky3 could offer.

 

[Stein14]

Regarding point 1. Before the Papal State was annexed by Italy, the cardinals were almost exclusively Italians. The non-Italians in large numbers or not at all European cardinal was not planned at that time. The practice only changed when the Pope became landless. It is quite possible that if the Pope had become the ruler of Italy there would be almost only Italian cardinals today.

 

[Mr. Wiggles]

Imagine a world where the Pope rules Italy. You're told every day that you are so lucky to live in the heart of Christiandom. That there is no greater good being done on Earth than with the Italian people, the true successors to the Romans, and that there is no place closer to God on this Earth. And that it's your duty to spread Christ's love to the four corners of the Earth.

And every night at 7PM, every man turns to the TV to watch the opening of God's favorite news program:

Sounds more like jehova witnesses' american religious capitalism

 

[Tibi088]

Regarding point 1. Before the Papal State was annexed by Italy, the cardinals were almost exclusively Italians. The non-Italians in large numbers or not at all European cardinal was not planned at that time. The practice only changed when the Pope became landless. It is quite possible that if the Pope had become the ruler of Italy there would be almost only Italian cardinals today.

But how would that affect the rest of the catholic world? If the papacy becomes inseparably bound to italian nationalism that could seriously hurt the universal catholic church world wide.

 

[Stein14]

But how would that affect the rest of the catholic world? If the papacy becomes inseparably bound to italian nationalism that could seriously hurt the universal catholic church world wide.

Well for centuries the popes were only Italians and it worked.

 

[Me_]

Given the penchant for alt-history scenarios in various circles, I fully expect a separate "crusades" and "excommunications" and "holy orders" mechanics just for the Papal states if they fulfill some conditions, added for reasons that I cannot fathom.

 

[Tibi088]

Well for centuries the popes were only Italians and it worked.

For centuries before nationalism was a thing. And again they were fairly unimportant as rulers of a small state. Italy would be very close to be a great power.

 

[Revshawn]

Sounds more like jehova witnesses' american religious capitalism

I'll pretend that God didn't hear that.