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Denkt

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I have heard alot about Axis and many of the allies fantastical technology however then I try to look for what technology Soviet used its very hard to find any information more than like t34.

I wonder how Soviet technology could be compared to other major ww2 powers, which areas did soviet have the best technology in compared to other nations and which was their weakest areas, overall technology comparison would be nice to.
 

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Some excellent SMG designs like the PPsh-41 and PPs-43. The PPsh-41 was often used without the disk mag as this was rather heavy. IIRC standard practice was a disk mag in the gun and the remaining ammunition carried in stick mags. LMG was somewhat lacking, being fed by a large disk mag (disk mags are heavy, unwieldy and unreliable), and not really on a par with German designs. The standard issue rifle was the Mosin Nagant, various versions. Accurate, but in no way modern. Compared to the K98 it's not at much of a disadvantage, but compared to a SMLE or Garand it doesn't come up too well. Self-loading rifles, there's the SVT-40. It had reliability issues, but there's some evidence that was more due to Eastern Front conditions/the average Soviet soldier not being too careful with his gear. They also ventured into assault rifles with the AVT-40. Suffice to say, the mag was too small (10 rounds), it was based on an unreliable rifle, and the ammunition was not downgraded. So essentially, you got a very short burst of uncontrollable full-power rifle cartridges before the gun shook itself apart.

Fighters started somewhat badly. There were good designs, stuff like the Yak-1 and LaGG-3 were capable of taking on a 109 relatively evenly. However, the majority of the air force was using obsolete types. What's more, the stuff that was up to date still suffered from problems plaguing the Soviet Union as a whole. Doctrinal/specialised equipment problems were a big cause of losses. Later on, aircraft like the Yak-9 and La-5 levelled the playing field in terms of aircraft quality. Towards the end of the war, the La-7 and Yak-3 were better than the equivalent German machines. At low altitudes, they were also better than the Western Allied machines.

Bombers also started varied. Various outdated stuff like the TB-3, DB-3, etc... made up a chunk of the bomber force. The IL-2 is rather famous, but its qualities were more as a weapon of industrial war than a fighting machine. It was underpowered, had a small payload and very vulnerable (especially the variants without rear guns, and when flown in tight formation). It was however good for mass production, and could do good service. Later in the war, the IL-10 began to replace it, and was far superior. Soviet air support techniques never really reached the same level as the Western Allies. Unlike the Western Allies, they failed to develop an effective strategic bomber force.
 

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One of the USSR's problems was that they peaked early. During the early-to-mid 1930s, they had some of the most advanced fighter, bomber and tank designs in the world. However, they saw no urgency about replacing and updating their massive stock of weapons. As a result, by the time the war started aircraft like the I-16 and tanks like the T-26, which had once been state-of-the-art, were now obsolete. Countries which began rearmament later had gone straight to more advanced designs.
 

gagenater

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Soviet artillery and large guns in general were very good. The Germans after doing some field trials actively sought out and incorporated into their inventory all the 76.2 mm (3") Soviet anti tank guns they could find. It was similar in performance to the famed British 17 pounder gun but somewhat lighter and easier to move around. Russian artillery and large guns were well known for having some of the finest metallurgy and production techniques around. The Germans really wanted to produce more 76.2 mm guns for themselves but were unable to due to a lack of specialized alloys and shortages of heavy duty gun founding equipment. They wound up only being able to produce replacement ammo instead.

Their armor plating was also very good. The Germans were unable to copy it directly due to lack of the proper alloys, but also due to shortages of heavy duty metal bending and pressing equipment needed to make curved armor plates (better for deflection and resisting shot at angles) They eventually made up the lack of bending and pressing equiment but never made up the alloy material shortages.

The Russians were the only military in the entire war to equip their tanks and most other military equipment with diesel engines. Diesel engines are superior to gasoline ones for military service - they are more reliable, get better fuel economy, are harder to set fire, have greater flexability on fuel types and grades, and can run further between maintenance. However they require some really heavy duty manufacturing capability to make, as well as a lot of intricate machining, and careful design to work properly. Other powers had to much trouble with these problems and reserved diesels for specialty roles (submarines being the prime example) where the difficulty of making them was worthwhile.
 
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Denkt

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I heard years ago that Soviet infantry flamethrower was the only flamethrows that was camouflaged to look like normal infantry kit so soviet may very well fielded the best infantry flamethrowers in the war.
Soviet was one of the first nations to field semi automatic rifles which I think was one of the reasons why Germany developed their own semi automatic rifles however they was never fielded in great numbers because of the early start of the war.
Soviet tanks seams to have been very reliable, even the IS series while other nations heavy tanks broke down.
Soviet was one of the first nations to develop an assault rifle a thing that many other was far behind in.
Soviet may have fielded the most effective rocket artillery of all nations in ww2.
Was not soviet tank optics considered superior to US ones however germany was far ahead here.
I have also heard that then Germany started the invasion of soviet union, soviet was more advanced in many key areas compared to germany.
 
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HuzzButt

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I heard years ago that Soviet infantry flamethrower was the only flamethrows that was camouflaged to look like normal infantry kit so soviet may very well fielded the best infantry flamethrowers in the war.
Soviet was one of the first nations to field semi automatic rifles which I think was one of the reasons why Germany developed their own semi automatic rifles however they was never fielded in great numbers because of the early start of the war.
Soviet tanks seams to have been very reliable, even the IS series while other nations heavy tanks broke down.
Soviet was one of the first nations to develop an assault rifle a thing that many other was far behind in.
Soviet may have fielded the most effective rocket artillery of all nations in ww2.
Was not soviet tank optics considered superior to US ones however germany was far ahead here.
I have also heard that then Germany started the invasion of soviet union, soviet was more advanced in many key areas compared to germany.

AFAIK the development of assault rifles started long before WW2 however they would in modern terminology be called Battle Rifles (full powered rounds) The real difference was the utilization of an intermediate cartridge, not that they were alone in that either.
Most of the comparisons you make are mildly irrelevant, The soviet rocket artillery was surely great but a fleet of bombers as fielded by the allies is better at turning humans into pulp, the same goes for the optics.

Technological divides are relevant but really only when they are in fact contributing to severe losses or gains in war: The cannonboat was one such technology, the cartridge another and the drone of course. Being 5 or 8% better at a specific part of something isn't gonna make a big difference because most of the time that part isn't the issue.
 

DoomBunny

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I heard years ago that Soviet infantry flamethrower was the only flamethrows that was camouflaged to look like normal infantry kit so soviet may very well fielded the best infantry flamethrowers in the war.

Of little relevance.

Soviet was one of the first nations to field semi automatic rifles which I think was one of the reasons why Germany developed their own semi automatic rifles however they was never fielded in great numbers because of the early start of the war.

As I said, the SVT-40 wasn't exactly a great design.

Soviet tanks seams to have been very reliable, even the IS series while other nations heavy tanks broke down.

IIRC T-34 reliability losses were huge.

Soviet was one of the first nations to develop an assault rifle a thing that many other was far behind in.

The AVT-40, as I said, was a joke. So much so that use of the automatic fire function was banned.

Was not soviet tank optics considered superior to US ones however germany was far ahead here.

Planes are more my thing than tanks, but weren't Soviet optics notoriously terrible?

I have also heard that then Germany started the invasion of soviet union, soviet was more advanced in many key areas compared to germany.

Well, in terms of SMGs, basic tank design (but not tank doctrine, outfitting or production-quality), strategic bombers (despite the Soviet strategic bomber arm being equipped with flying school buses, the Germans had none, so anything is better), and high altitude fighters (the Mig-3 is better than a 109 at height... which is great until you realise that Eastern Front aerial combat was largely mid-low level), to name a few, yes. Didn't stop them getting brutalised though.
 

KaiserBeer

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I've always tought that the T-26 were superior than the german light tanks. If I'm not mistaken, however, the BT series had an error in the project that severely affected it's suspension
 

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IIRC T-34 reliability losses were huge.
Not exactly. The T-34 was, from what I've gathered, extremely reliable compared to other 1940s tanks - which, to be fair, is not saying a whole lot. The Soviets would routinely drive them on their tracks for hundreds of miles, whereas the Germans would load their tanks onto flatbed trailers for long-distance transportation, since they had a bad habit of breaking down. The T-34 would also start up even in sub-zero temperatures - something the German tanks often failed to do - and could traverse muddy ground easily.

So what was the problem? The T-34 might be reliable, but Soviet repair and maintenance workshops were poor quality, badly trained and poorly equipped. If a T-34 did break down, it was usually easier to junk it and transfer the crew into a brand-new tank, rather than try and repair the old one. As a result, Soviet statistics for tank losses due to mechanical failure seem abnormally high.

The Germans had the opposite problem, incidentally. They did have excellent tank repair facilities, and made a point of never writing off a tank if there was the slightest chance it might be repaired. As such, you'd have situations where the official records said, for example, that 87-SS Panzer Division Das Reichtangle had 350 tanks on the books, when in fact it had 12 operational tanks and 338 disassembled pieces of junk in its repair shops that it was unwilling to get rid of.


Planes are more my thing than tanks, but weren't Soviet optics notoriously terrible?
So says popular history. My understanding is that at their best, Soviet optics were as good as anybody else's - but their industry wasn't particularly good at creating precise, blur-free glass lenses, so in practice what tank crews had to use fell far short of the ideal.
 

nwinther

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Not sure about ww2 optics, but cold war optics were very good although suffered from discoloration in the glass even into the 1990's. A greenish hue, whereas german optics were of consistantly High quality.
 

Denkt

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Found this: http://english.battlefield.ru/evaluation-of-the-t-34-and-kv-dp1.html

US was handed a T-34 and a Kv tank, here is what they had to about the optics:

Optic
The general opinion: the best construction in the world. Incomparable with any existing tanks or any under development.

And they criticized almost everything else in some way.
Soviet optics and other thing may have declined in quality because they had to produce so many thing in such a short period, also Soviet was also rather limited in many resources like steel which may have contributed to falling quality.

T-34 had about as good reliability as M4 while I think IS series did have far better reliability than M26 and the German heavy tanks.
 
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Graf Zeppelin

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Also the Soviets had some excellent mortar designs.
 

Galbatorix994

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Don't forget the rocket artillery (such as the katyusha),which the soviets were able to field in far larger amounts than any other nation during the second world war,and which were reportedly quite effective
 

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Found this: http://english.battlefield.ru/evaluation-of-the-t-34-and-kv-dp1.html

US was handed a T-34 and a Kv tank, here is what they had to about the optics:

Optic
The general opinion: the best construction in the world. Incomparable with any existing tanks or any under development.

And they criticized almost everything else in some way.
Soviet optics and other thing may have declined in quality because they had to produce so many thing in such a short period, also Soviet was also rather limited in many resources like steel which may have contributed to falling quality.

T-34 had about as good reliability as M4 while I think IS series did have far better reliability than M26 and the German heavy tanks.

The T-34 tank shared the same qualities and problems that all the other Soviet successful weapons produced in that time. As for the design itself, for a 1940 tank, it was simply superb. With that design, Soviet engineers just sent all their foreign colleagues back to their drawing boards to try to emulate them. But as for the built-in reality, that was another thing.

First of all, the Soviet armaments industry was almost all very new (with some exceptions, like the old Putilov Works in Leningrad, renamed as "Kirov Factory"), dating from the 1930s 5-year plans and due to being created almost overnight from zero, lacked skilled manpower on all levels. And that showed. Also, the Soviet industry, although reasonably good at putting together relatively unsophisticated products (like a tank frame) lacked skill when it came to the more sophisticated elements. And in that report you posted, the Americans point regularly to such problems: bad air filters, weak transmission, weak track elements, needlessly thick armour plates due to incorrect steel processing ....

The Soviets' genius was to acknowledge those realities and to compensate them in the only possible way under total war circumstances: mass production. All Soviet weapons were from design, optimized for mass production, but during the war the Soviet planners became even more ruthless in that respect. In 1941, the cost of producing a T-34 tank was of 270,000 roubles. By 1943, it had dropped to 135,000 roubles.

In 1939, the Soviet Union had a smaller industrial base than the Greater German Reich (including annexed Austrian and Czech territories), and in June 1941 the situation had become even worse, as Germany had access to the industry of all of the occupied territories. But each and every year of the war, the USSR outproduced the Germans in most weapon cathegories.

And as others have noted, in the end this approach paid off.
 

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StephenT:
Not exactly. The T-34 was, from what I've gathered, extremely reliable compared to other 1940s tanks - which, to be fair, is not saying a whole lot. The Soviets would routinely drive them on their tracks for hundreds of miles, whereas the Germans would load their tanks onto flatbed trailers for long-distance transportation, since they had a bad habit of breaking down. The T-34 would also start up even in sub-zero temperatures - something the German tanks often failed to do - and could traverse muddy ground easily.

Semper Victor:
The T-34 tank shared the same qualities and problems that all the other Soviet successful weapons produced in that time. As for the design itself, for a 1940 tank, it was simply superb.

Denkt:
Optic, the general opinion: the best construction in the world. Incomparable with any existing tanks or any under development.



This is what Nigel Askey: The Operation Barbarossa Books has to say about the T34...

The T-34 in WWII: the Legend vs. the Performance
However, if battle performance was (and indeed still is) the ultimate determinant of the effectiveness of any weapon system, then unlike some legends in WWII, the tactical combat record of the T-34 does not match up to its legendary status.

There is no doubt that a large proportion of T-34s in 1941 fell victim to operational type losses, especially in the situations the Red Army found itself in during the summer of 1941. Many T-34s had little or no armour piercing ammunition in June 1941, although they did in the months that followed. Many T-34s were abandoned and lost due to breakdown, being bogged down or simply out of fuel. The Red Army’s tank divisions, already short of tractors, had little to no recovery vehicles or even time to recover these tanks. However, even if we assume a staggering 40-50% of T-34s were operational losses (which is probably too high an estimate), then the T-34’s loss ratio in tactical combat is still around two-three to one in the German favour.

There is little doubt that as an all round tank the T-34 was the most powerful medium tank in the world in 1941, with far reaching influences on future tank design.

The combat results for 1941 show the Soviets lost an average of over seven tanks for every German tank lost. If all German fully tracked AFVs (assault guns, tank destroyers, SP artillery, etc) and losses from Germany’s allies are included in the German figures, then the ratio drops to 6.6 to 1 in the German favour.
Of the total of 20 500 Soviet tanks lost in 1941, approximately 2 300 were T-34s and over 900 were mostly KV heavy tanks. Even if the T-34’s loss ratio was better than seven for every German tank, it was still most likely in the region of four or five to one.

The T-34/76’s one great weakness was its fire control efficiency. It suffered from the same two-man turret syndrome as other Soviet tanks in this period, namely that the tank’s commander, gun aimer, gun firer and platoon commander (if a platoon leader), were all the same person. Exacerbating this was the fact that the T-34/76 had relatively poor main gun optics quality, no turret basket, a very cramped and low turret (the gun could not depress more than three degrees severely restricting use on a reverse slope or at close range), poor turret drive reliability, no radios, and generally poor target observation and indicator devices (including no turret cupola and only one vision periscope for the tank’s commander).

So what was the result of the T-34/76’s two man turret, weak optics and poor vision devices (that is a poor overall FCE factor)? German tankers noted “T34s operated in a disorganised fashion with little coordination, or else tended to clump together like a hen with its chicks. Individual tank commanders lacked situational awareness due to the poor provision of vision devices and preoccupation with gunnery duties.

In comparison Soviet tanks had a generally rough and ready finish, and lacked many features which were assumed essential by German tankers and to a large extent by their Western Allied counterparts. There were of course considerably more Soviet tanks, which ultimately helped them to win the war.
 

Semper Victor

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StephenT:
Not exactly. The T-34 was, from what I've gathered, extremely reliable compared to other 1940s tanks - which, to be fair, is not saying a whole lot. The Soviets would routinely drive them on their tracks for hundreds of miles, whereas the Germans would load their tanks onto flatbed trailers for long-distance transportation, since they had a bad habit of breaking down. The T-34 would also start up even in sub-zero temperatures - something the German tanks often failed to do - and could traverse muddy ground easily.

Semper Victor:
The T-34 tank shared the same qualities and problems that all the other Soviet successful weapons produced in that time. As for the design itself, for a 1940 tank, it was simply superb.

Denkt:
Optic, the general opinion: the best construction in the world. Incomparable with any existing tanks or any under development.



This is what Nigel Askey: The Operation Barbarossa Books has to say about the T34...

The T-34 in WWII: the Legend vs. the Performance
However, if battle performance was (and indeed still is) the ultimate determinant of the effectiveness of any weapon system, then unlike some legends in WWII, the tactical combat record of the T-34 does not match up to its legendary status.

There is no doubt that a large proportion of T-34s in 1941 fell victim to operational type losses, especially in the situations the Red Army found itself in during the summer of 1941. Many T-34s had little or no armour piercing ammunition in June 1941, although they did in the months that followed. Many T-34s were abandoned and lost due to breakdown, being bogged down or simply out of fuel. The Red Army’s tank divisions, already short of tractors, had little to no recovery vehicles or even time to recover these tanks. However, even if we assume a staggering 40-50% of T-34s were operational losses (which is probably too high an estimate), then the T-34’s loss ratio in tactical combat is still around two-three to one in the German favour.

There is little doubt that as an all round tank the T-34 was the most powerful medium tank in the world in 1941, with far reaching influences on future tank design.

The combat results for 1941 show the Soviets lost an average of over seven tanks for every German tank lost. If all German fully tracked AFVs (assault guns, tank destroyers, SP artillery, etc) and losses from Germany’s allies are included in the German figures, then the ratio drops to 6.6 to 1 in the German favour.
Of the total of 20 500 Soviet tanks lost in 1941, approximately 2 300 were T-34s and over 900 were mostly KV heavy tanks. Even if the T-34’s loss ratio was better than seven for every German tank, it was still most likely in the region of four or five to one.

The T-34/76’s one great weakness was its fire control efficiency. It suffered from the same two-man turret syndrome as other Soviet tanks in this period, namely that the tank’s commander, gun aimer, gun firer and platoon commander (if a platoon leader), were all the same person. Exacerbating this was the fact that the T-34/76 had relatively poor main gun optics quality, no turret basket, a very cramped and low turret (the gun could not depress more than three degrees severely restricting use on a reverse slope or at close range), poor turret drive reliability, no radios, and generally poor target observation and indicator devices (including no turret cupola and only one vision periscope for the tank’s commander).

So what was the result of the T-34/76’s two man turret, weak optics and poor vision devices (that is a poor overall FCE factor)? German tankers noted “T34s operated in a disorganised fashion with little coordination, or else tended to clump together like a hen with its chicks. Individual tank commanders lacked situational awareness due to the poor provision of vision devices and preoccupation with gunnery duties.

In comparison Soviet tanks had a generally rough and ready finish, and lacked many features which were assumed essential by German tankers and to a large extent by their Western Allied counterparts. There were of course considerably more Soviet tanks, which ultimately helped them to win the war.

Given the state of total disorganization of the Red Army in June 1941, you could probably have equipped them with laser guns and the Death Star and they still would've f****d things up in front of the Germans. Apart from the long list of technical problems caused by the lack of refinement of the Soviet industry, there was the problem of the often abysmal quality of the tank crews and commanders. Between the signing of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact in August 1939 and the launching of Barbarossa (less than two years), Stalin increased spectacularly the size of the Red Army, from around 1,800,000 men to more than 5,000,000 with the corresponding increases in the number of AFVs. And the Soviet officer and training schools simply could not cope with such demands. The result was that by June 1941 the T-34s in service with the Red Army not only suffered many absurd mechanical breakdowns, but they also lacked radios, were badly organized and commanded, and were manned by inexperienced crews that often lacked even the minimal skills in mechanics to deal with the most simple of failures in their vehicles. The necessary support for the armoured forces (repair facilities, towing vehicles, spare parts depots, even tanker trucks for refuelling) was also insufficient and badly organized, and the result was a ridiculous rate of losses (the fact that the Red Army lost ground steadily also made the recovery of damaged vehicles impossible).

An often repeated report by a the crew of a German 37mm anti-tank gun in June 1941 states that they hit 23 times a single T-34 managing only to jam its turret. From this story, two facts can be learnt: first that by 1941 the T-34 was far better armoured than anything the Germans had even encountered (or even imagined) before, and second: how in hell the crew of the T-34 allowed a single, towed (and thus immobile) anti-tank gun to shoot at them with impunity 23 times? :wacko: That says much about the quality of Germans vs Soviet manpower during those initial stages of the war.
 
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Ming

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DoomBunny

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An often repeated report by a the crew of a German 37mm anti-tank gun in June 1941 states that they hit 23 times a single T-34 managing only to jam its turret. From this story, two facts can be learnt: first that by 1941 the T-34 was far better armoured than anything the Germans had even encountered (or even imagined) before

That doesn't show anything of the sort.

Also, the soviets had a working Rocket/jet plane project during the war, but it never saw combat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bereznyak-Isayev_BI-1

Working is perhaps somewhat generous a description.