How about an event chain to westernise Russia?

[Ranjid]

How does that screenshot prove anything? You fought Austria.

I mean.

Austria.

Even Ethiopia could beat them. Not to mention your superior numbers and being the defender in Krakow, which has a river crossing to all bordering provinces.

 

[nicechinos]

Westernizing as a whole just needs a revamp. Russia westernized, became a world power. Japan westernized, became a world power. However as it is right now even if those countries westernize they will never become world powers.

Well Russia can beat up all the non-western powers, but if late game Russia ever tries to mess with Western power Prussia will just kindly take them aside and politely tell them that they are being silly.

That's awfully wrong. I take on France, Austria and Sweden without a problem. Aristocratic, Offensive, Defensive and Quality couple with +20% inf and cavalry combat ability do the trick.

 

[nicechinos]

They already have -10% Technology cost discount


just no

More hate for Russians, Polish brother. yay!

 

[nicechinos]

Accordingly I'd say there should be some special tech group that Russian nations start in (+30-40% tech cost) with the Peter the Great reforms allowing them to become Eastern.

That's plain silly, mate. Do you have anything to back your claim (except ignorant "I'd say")?

 

[Beagá]

The 10% technology cost reduction must GO.

Instead of wasting time on doing NI for Tver, change the NIs that should be changed. There is ZERO reason to westernize as Russia.

 

[DicRoNero]

The 10% technology cost reduction must GO.

There is ZERO reason to westernize as Russia.

Can you provide any reasoning for both of your statements?

I can't comment on the NIs, as everyone has his divine right to percieve nations as he pleases and thus mentally assign them the NIs he finds appropriate*, but westernizing as Russia allows you to protectorate coutries instead of fighting them directly, thus saving you a lot of time. And that's without obvious reasons like saving MPs in the long run.

* like a bonus of +100500 manpower for Russia instead of any quality-related ones - cause why the *** not??

 

[Beagá]

Why only Russia deserves the massive tech cost reduction by NI, genius?

The BEST bonus there is in the game is anything that reduces monarch point cost, because monarch points are the ONLY thing the player has no means of directly acquiring faster, apart from having better advisors. Land, manpower, gold, all those can be directly influenced, but MP gain is a stable gain, meaning MP mean TIME, which is the most valuable currency in the game. More monarch points mean you can do everything faster.

And BTW I hate NIs as a whole, already made a thread suggesting they should be scrapped and replaced by a better policy system.

 

[DicRoNero]

Why only Russia deserves the massive tech cost reduction by NI, genius?

There are quite a lot of countries with such a NI, some of them are pretty powerful, like France or Bohemia. I'm not quite getting your point.

 

[unmerged(652342)]

Why only Russia deserves the massive tech cost reduction by NI, genius?

- here are plethora of nations that have similar tech bonuses, not-genius.

 

[Beagá]

The point is they are all BS.

Getting faster tech because you westernize makes sense, getting a magical -10 or 5% tech discount (specially if NONE of your idea groups are administrative), not as much. Just because I didn´t mention France doesn´t mean I don´t think it´s just as stupid.

Also funny that 2 russians dislike what I said. Clap clap clap. Not biased at all.

 

[Freudia]

The point is they are all BS.

Getting faster tech because you westernize makes sense, getting a magical -10 or 5% tech discount (specially if NONE of your idea groups are administrative), not as much. Just because I didn´t mention France doesn´t mean I don´t think it´s just as stupid.

Also funny that 2 russians dislike what I said. Clap clap clap. Not biased at all.

I don't get what's wrong with -10% tech cost as a NI. There're plenty of things that I think are stronger than that. That's not to say cheaper tech is bad, but if I had to pick between -10% tech or +7.5% Discipline or +20% Morale or +5% Missionary Strength, well... let's say I'm not going with the tech.

 

[DicRoNero]

Also funny that 2 russians dislike what I said. Clap clap clap. Not biased at all.

I've never said I'm *unbiased* when it comes to discussing my people and the country we've created - just the reverse, I always underline I'm a Russian nationalist. But should this fact make my arguments any less valid? Hopefully, no.

Now that you admit you dislike this sort of ideas in general rather than within Russian NIs alone, I think we've got a solid ground for agreement

 

[Zwirbaum]

I think the best solution in terms of current westernization would be, to modify point cost of westernization by tech cost reduction.

You have 10% tech cost reduction (University+Scientific Revolution)= You reduce cost of westernization by 10% (which equals to 200 points).
Milt tech, adm tech, dip tech cost reduction would just reduce by one third of the reduction. (Administration would shave 66 points, Aritstocratic and Diplomatic each another 66 points.).
In that scenario with preserved current NI set, they could westernize for 200 points less, assuming no other tech cost reduction and bought enough ideas to have Tech cost reduction NI.

 

[unmerged(652342)]

Also funny that 2 russians dislike what I said. Clap clap clap. Not biased at all.

- obviously, afterall im RussianBias.

 

[1alexey]

Pretty much yes. Also, don't forget how they balance Russia by making Orthodox 1) a poor religion and 2) prohibiting easy switching from it.
These penalties are offset only by Russia still getting top-tier NIs and good starting location. Nerf either of those 2 and Russia will become a mediocre regional power.

Orthodox is not a poor religion.

 

[ekorovin]

I want an ability to reform Orthodoxy. Patriarchy is unnecessary, Most Holy Sinode ftw.

 

[DicRoNero]

Orthodox is not a poor religion.

By Christian standards it is; or would you argue that it's the weakest one among the group? Just don't mention Coptic, please

 

[Freudia]

By Christian standards it is; or would you argue that it's the weakest one among the group? Just don't mention Coptic, please

By the game's standards as a whole, Orthodoxy is like... top 5 probably. It's definitely on the better end of the spectrum. It's also better than no-WoN Reformed, and that's a fact.

 

[Zak Preston]

I want an ability to swap any Catholic state to Orthodoxy since their in-game bonuses are simply the best (manpower and missionary strength for some tax loss can't be compared even remotely), no reformation events and so on.

 

[nicechinos]

I think the best solution in terms of current westernization would be, to modify point cost of westernization by tech cost reduction.

You have 10% tech cost reduction (University+Scientific Revolution)= You reduce cost of westernization by 10% (which equals to 200 points).
Milt tech, adm tech, dip tech cost reduction would just reduce by one third of the reduction. (Administration would shave 66 points, Aritstocratic and Diplomatic each another 66 points.).
In that scenario with preserved current NI set, they could westernize for 200 points less, assuming no other tech cost reduction and bought enough ideas to have Tech cost reduction NI.

That still doesn't make much sense, I'm afraid. You lose all your military tradition during westernisation which doesn't feel right at all. Petrine military reforms brought Russian navy and army which defeated Sweden, which was European super power before the Great Northern War. AI seems to DOW every time westernisation is finished and there is nothing westernised can bring to a table because it lags one mil tech at least, has negative prestige and no military tradition (double to triple morale hit if you miss the tech which increases morale). Having western arms trade which is fairly easy if you playing Muscovy and manageable if you playing Novgorod makes Westernisation extremely costly. I wouldn't even mention stab hit which is another 300 admin points.
I'd note that westernising this late in the game (University is level 17 if I remember correctly) is not worth it even 200 admin point discount is applied.