How about an event chain to westernise Russia?

[Casus_Belli]

So, there isn't too much point in westernising now, but one thing that has always bugged me, is that though they westernised in real life, they never do, and have no real reason to, westernise.

Therefore I suggest that an event chain is added, that will only fire if a ruler has a combined skills of at least ten and are Russia.

These events would give you some choices, either to remain eastern, or become a western nation, and, most importantly, get western units as well as some buffs for 20-50 years.


Does everyone like my idea, I'm open to criticism, but please state what you think is wrong, and I may change the originial post.

 

[Anaeri]

Why should Russia be a special flower? Just because they traditionally westernized doesn't mean they should be railroaded into getting it. Westernization sucks though and I almost always play western tech countries because of it.

 

[ahyangyi]

Instead, I wish they rebalance westernizing so Russia westernizing actually makes sense.

Maybe make it cheaper/faster to westernize for tech groups with less tech penalties?

 

[BarskiPatzow]

I'd rather make it a bunch of decisions and policies that have positive and negative sides, some kind of reforms that would be met with opposition in different layers of society. Just look how it happened in RL. I'd also separate "westernization" of army, administration and navy, changing the type of training of troops is something that is done in years, not just instantly. For that we would need a rework of units and military in general. Upgrading ships costs a lot so that would need to be represented. I know someone will say that process of "westernization" represents all of that but its just plain dull IMO.

 

[Anaeri]

It's mostly just the mana cost to westernize that I really hate. It's 2200 points even for eastern. It wouldn't be so bad if it were just the revolt risk, or if there were possibly some positive westernization events. Keeping any gimped units also kinda sucks. This is why I've been forming byzantium as Venice recently

 

[DicRoNero]

I haven't formed Russia with Eastern tech state for a very long time, but as of 1.8 things should be somewhat easier due to them 1) raising the lowest limit of westernization monthly progress and 2) unit pips getting rebalanced again.

What is still mind-boggling though is the fact how backwards countries can westnize while those with up to date tech cannot; so I'd change the requirements from being at least 7 tech levels behind to being at most behind 3 (or, say, 5), but with adm level at least 10, so that you can't westenize right from the start, obviously In this case you're encouraged to stay at the cutting edge of technology rather than artifically tag behind.

 

[Casus_Belli]

Why should Russia be a special flower? Just because they traditionally westernized doesn't mean they should be railroaded into getting it. Westernization sucks though and I almost always play western tech countries because of it.

I was thinking about saying all nations, but I thought that it wouldn't make sense in a historical way.

 

[hashinshin]

The problem in EU4 is that eastern tech is nonsense. The Balkans and the Commonwealth fell off due to centuries of warfare and being between a rock and a hard place. Effectively eastern tech is the "lets nerf Russia" tech group that fails to be historical. It's basically the inner perfection or 25% autonomy nerf for Russia, except other nations got dragged along too. Due to the fact they didn't want to make it TOO bad Russia never has to westernize. If they made, say, a Siberian tech group with superior units that had -45% technology costs that would suit the balance much better.

 

[Casus_Belli]

Instead, I wish they rebalance westernizing so Russia westernizing actually makes sense.

Maybe make it cheaper/faster to westernize for tech groups with less tech penalties?

I would like them to change westernisation, making it easier for certain tech groups (Eastern and Ottoman, and maybe Muslim) and buffing Western Units, while nerfing the rest. But I think Paradox ruled that out, so, I thought the next best option for Russia was an event chain.

 

[hashinshin]

Westernizing as a whole just needs a revamp. Russia westernized, became a world power. Japan westernized, became a world power. However as it is right now even if those countries westernize they will never become world powers.

Well Russia can beat up all the non-western powers, but if late game Russia ever tries to mess with Western power Prussia will just kindly take them aside and politely tell them that they are being silly.

 

[Ranjid]

It's mostly just the mana cost to westernize that I really hate. It's 2200 points even for eastern. It wouldn't be so bad if it were just the revolt risk, or if there were possibly some positive westernization events. Keeping any gimped units also kinda sucks. This is why I've been forming byzantium as Venice recently

Genoa->Byzanzium was even more satisfying. 100% merc with the Constantinople node is pure awesome. Well, until they nerfed the genoese missions, that is.

Anyway, OT:

Peter the Great modernized the army and economy, but failed to break up the old nobility and clergy. What BarskiPatzow said makes way more sense in such a case. Westernization is way too simple in EU. Click a button, play whack-a-mole and cry some about losing thousands of precious mana points. Afterwards you're done. Everyone will be satisfied and...you gain the ability to create merchant enclaves in Africa and Asia. Great!

I'd much rather see a gradual improvement in troop types, events that add mercantilism and trade power, lowered autonomy in a few provinces. All that kind of events upon westernization. The Tech Group shouldn't go from 300% to 100%. Maybe something like 105% for eastern, 115% for muslim, 125% for indian etc. Make the main point of westernization not some arbitrary monarch point consumption, but events and bonuses. That'd be my idea.

Umh, that was off topic as well, huh?

 

[DicRoNero]

The problem in EU4 is that eastern tech is nonsense. The Balkans and the Commonwealth fell off due to centuries of warfare and being between a rock and a hard place. Effectively eastern tech is the "lets nerf Russia" tech group that fails to be historical. It's basically the inner perfection or 25% autonomy nerf for Russia, except other nations got dragged along too.

Pretty much yes. Also, don't forget how they balance Russia by making Orthodox 1) a poor religion and 2) prohibiting easy switching from it.
These penalties are offset only by Russia still getting top-tier NIs and good starting location. Nerf either of those 2 and Russia will become a mediocre regional power.

 

[Ranjid]

Pretty much yes. Also, don't forget how they balance Russia by making Orthodox 1) a poor religion and 2) prohibiting easy switching from it.
These penalties are offset only by Russia still getting top-tier NIs and good starting location. Nerf either of those 2 and Russia will become a mediocre regional power.

Which it actually was before Peter modernized the country. That's why I'd love a gradual improvement of the military and economy after westernization.

 

[Less]

I'd hardly say that Russia westernized in the timeframe, in the context of what EU takes to mean "western". I'd argue that Russia merely "europeanized" culturally during the timeframe but was still plainly behind the western nations in terms of economic and technological development, which is what I take techgroups to represent more than simple culture. Accordingly I'd say there should be some special tech group that Russian nations start in (+30-40% tech cost) with the Peter the Great reforms allowing them to become Eastern.

 

[Mikalos]

Why should Russia be a special flower? Just because they traditionally westernized doesn't mean they should be railroaded into getting it. Westernization sucks though and I almost always play western tech countries because of it.

have you played paradox before?

 

[Pro]

I don't know about event, but it's got -10% tech cost from its ideas.

 

[IIWW]

Instead, I wish they rebalance westernizing so Russia westernizing actually makes sense.

Maybe make it cheaper/faster to westernize for tech groups with less tech penalties?

It is? Westernizing cost (and, what comes from that, time) depends only on tech penalty.

 

[StatikShocker]

late game Russia ever tries to mess with Western power Prussia will just kindly take them aside and politely tell them that they are being silly.

 

[Denkt]

The one milion manpower will however allow Russia to outlast all her foes, including Prussia.

 

[zemuzil]

They already have -10% Technology cost discount


just no