House Uí Ímair

Sleight of Hand · Nov 25, 2012

These guys (dynasty 20084) belonged to a great Norse-Gael dynasty who ruled parts of the British Isles around Mann, Dublin and the Hebrides. Currently they start with some weird cultural mixes, such as the grandfather, father and son in 1066 having different cultures. Some are Irish, some are Scots, some are Norwegian. Seems quite random, and pretty confusing. You could change their dynasty name to Ivarætten, the Norse name. That isn't too important, though, and Uí Ímair is certainly the better known version.

As they're only around at the start of the game and rule Norwegian culture provinces, I'd suggest making them Norwegian culture. As we don't have a proper way to represent the Norse-Gaels then I think this would be good; they certainly shouldn't be Scottish, and there are tons of Irish characters anyway. Arguably there are only two great Norse-Gael clans left by 1066 -- these and the Crovans -- so it seems an ideal solution. Also, these areas would likely have remained Norse had the Norse-Gaels not been assimilated or usurped and replaced with Anglo-Norman rulers. Gaelic and Old Norse names are used interchangeably for the most part, but it does seem a nice gameplay decision to go with Norwegian due to province culture (as I've mentioned) and the fact that the Irish and Scots will usually conquer the remaining Norse-Gael provinces quite quickly, after which they will tend to change culture. By having them as Norwegian, this will add a bit more flavor (which is not inaccurate) and also give the player something of a challenge as a nice alternative to the Crovans, who historically usurped the Uí Ímair and conquered Mann.

So, we'll start with the two characters in the Norwegian file and then work down.

norwegian.txt

Code:

5789 = {
	name="[COLOR="#FF8C00"]Sigtrygg[/COLOR]"
	[COLOR="#FF8C00"]# AKA: Sihtric Cáech[/COLOR]
	dynasty=20084
	martial=7
	diplomacy=7
	intrigue=7
	stewardship=7
	religion="catholic"
	culture="norwegian"
	880.1.2={
		birth="880.1.2"
	}
	927.1.2={
		death="927.1.2"
	}
}

5790 = {
	name="[COLOR="#FF8C00"]Olav Kvåran[/COLOR]"
	[COLOR="#FF8C00"]# AKA: Amlaíb Cuarán[/COLOR]
	dynasty=20084
	martial=7
	diplomacy=7
	intrigue=7
	stewardship=7
	religion="catholic"
	culture="norwegian"
	father=5789
	926.1.2={
		birth="926.1.2"
	}
	981.1.2={
		death="981.1.2"
	}
}[

irish.txt

Code:

131521 = {
	name="[COLOR="#FF8C00"]Járnkné[/COLOR]"
	[COLOR="#FF8C00"]# AKA: Glúniairn[/COLOR]
	dynasty=20084
	martial=4
	diplomacy=4
	intrigue=4
	stewardship=8
	religion="catholic"
	culture="[COLOR="#FF8C00"]norwegian[/COLOR]"
	add_trait="tough_soldier"
	father=5790
	mother=131520
	960.1.2={
		birth="960.1.2"
	}
	989.1.2={
		death="989.1.2"
	}
}

131522 = {
	name="Gilla Ciaráin"
	# AKA: Gilla Ciarain
	dynasty=20084
	martial=5
	diplomacy=4
	intrigue=3
	stewardship=4
	religion="catholic"
	culture="[COLOR="#FF8C00"]norwegian[/COLOR]"
	add_trait="tough_soldier"
	father=131521
	979.1.2={
		birth="979.1.2"
	}
	1014.1.24={
		death="1014.1.24"
	}
}

131523 = {
	name="[COLOR="#FF8C00"]Sigtrygg[/COLOR]"
	[COLOR="#FF8C00"]# AKA: Sihtric[/COLOR]
	dynasty=20084
	martial=3
	diplomacy=5
	intrigue=3
	stewardship=5
	religion="catholic"
	culture="[COLOR="#FF8C00"]norwegian[/COLOR]"
	add_trait="tough_soldier"
	father=131521
	980.1.2={
		birth="980.1.2"
	}
	1014.1.24={
		death="1014.1.24"
	}
}

131526 = {
	name="Mac Congáil"
	dynasty=20084
	martial=7
	diplomacy=5
	intrigue=6
	stewardship=4
	religion="catholic"
	culture="[COLOR="#FF8C00"]norwegian[/COLOR]"
	add_trait="tough_soldier"
	father=131525
	1039.1.2={
		birth="1039.1.2"
	}
	1098.1.1={
		death="1098.1.1"
	}
}

159291 = {
	name="[COLOR="#FF8C00"]Sigtrygg[/COLOR]"
	[COLOR="#FF8C00"]# AKA: Sihtric[/COLOR]
	dynasty=20084
	martial=6
	diplomacy=6
	intrigue=4
	stewardship=4
	religion="catholic"
	culture="[COLOR="#FF8C00"]norwegian[/COLOR]"
	add_trait="tough_soldier"
	add_trait="bastard"
	father=1027
	mother=1028
	1015.1.1={
		birth="1015.1.1"
	}
	1040.1.1={
		[COLOR="#FF0000"]name="Swtrig" # ab Anlaff
		culture="welsh"[/COLOR]
		add_spouse=159290
	} 
	1080.1.5={
		death="1080.1.5"
	}
}

1025 = {
	name="[COLOR="#FF8C00"]Sigtrygg[/COLOR]"
	[COLOR="#FF8C00"]# AKA: Sihtric[/COLOR]
	dynasty=20084
	martial=5
	diplomacy=8
	intrigue=7
	stewardship=7
	religion="catholic"
	culture="[COLOR="#FF8C00"]norwegian[/COLOR]"
	add_trait="intricate_webweaver"
	father=5790
	970.1.1={
		birth="970.1.1"
	}
	1000.1.2={
		add_spouse=1026
	}
	1042.1.5={
		death="1042.1.5"
	}
}

1027 = {
	name="[COLOR="#FF8C00"]Olav[/COLOR]"
	[COLOR="#FF8C00"]# AKA: Amlaíb[/COLOR]
	dynasty=20084
	martial=6
	diplomacy=6
	intrigue=4
	stewardship=4
	religion="catholic"
	culture="[COLOR="#FF8C00"]norwegian[/COLOR]"
	add_trait="tough_soldier"
	father=1025
	mother=1026
	1000.1.1={
		birth="1000.1.1"
	}
	1018.1.2={
		add_spouse=1028
	}
	1034.1.5={
		death="1034.1.5"
	}
}

1029 = {
	name="[COLOR="#FF8C00"]Ragnhild[/COLOR]"
	[COLOR="#FF8C00"]# AKA: Rachel[/COLOR]
	female = yes
	dynasty=20084
	martial=6
	diplomacy=6
	intrigue=4
	stewardship=4
	religion="catholic"
	culture="[COLOR="#FF8C00"]norwegian[/COLOR]"
	add_trait="flamboyant_schemer"
	father=1027
	mother=1028
	1018.1.1={
		birth="1018.1.1"
	}
	1065.1.5={
		death="1065.1.5"
	}
}

Regarding ID 159291 above, I don't see any point in changing Sigtrygg's culture and dynasty when he gets married. He's a bastard and has already started his wife's line of sons, who are Welsh and of her dynasty. If he has any future children (which is unlikely anyway) they'll be of the dynasty of whomever he marries. You don't just stop being Norwegian and start being Welsh.

scottish.txt

Code:

131524 = {
	name="[COLOR="#FF8C00"]Gudrød[/COLOR]"
	[COLOR="#FF8C00"]# AKA: Godfrey[/COLOR]
	dynasty=20084
	martial=4
	diplomacy=4
	intrigue=5
	stewardship=8
	religion="catholic"
	culture="[COLOR="#FF8C00"]norwegian[/COLOR]"
	add_trait="patient"
	add_trait="charitable"
	add_trait="gluttonous"
	father=131523
	1004.1.2={
		birth="1004.1.2"
	}
	1074.1.1={
		death="1074.1.1"
	}
}

131525 = {
	name="Fingal"
	dynasty=20084
	martial=6
	diplomacy=5
	intrigue=8
	stewardship=3
	religion="catholic"
	culture="[COLOR="#FF8C00"]norwegian[/COLOR]"
	add_trait="charitable"
	add_trait="tough_soldier"
	father=131524
	1022.1.2={
		birth="1022.1.2"
	}
	1072.1.1={
		death="1072.1.1"
	}
}

This would seem consistent with House Crovan, as I think they were recently made Norwegian from being a funny mix of various cultures. Speaking of which, there is a single member of House Crovan who still isn't Norwegian. He's a Scot, and shouldn't be:

Code:

5794 = {
	name="Donald"
	[COLOR="#FF8C00"]# AKA: Donald Haraldsson[/COLOR]
	dynasty=556
	martial=7
	diplomacy=8
	intrigue=4
	stewardship=8
	religion="catholic"
	culture="[COLOR="#FF8C00"]norwegian[/COLOR]"
	add_trait="gluttonous"
	add_trait="tough_soldier"
	father=5793
	1053.1.2={
		birth="1053.1.2"
	}
	1103.1.2={
		death="1103.1.2"
	}
}

His parents and siblings are all Norwegian, as he probably ought to be.

Finally, it may be worth linking up Gudrød_Godfrey for Norwegian culture. I wasn't aware the two were cognates, but having done a bit of research into these families it seems that Gudrød, Godred, Gofraid and Godfrey are often interlinked and used as alternatives for one another, depending on which language is being used.

Calgacus · Dec 7, 2012

You're following Downham with Harald so that seems fine. Btw where is Olaf Cuaran in all this?

A_Dane · Dec 7, 2012

Where he was before I started, the only addition to characters already in the game I've made, was giving them fathers.

(i.e. Sihtric Caech is still the father of Olaf Cuaran)

Sleight of Hand · Dec 7, 2012

Calgacus, could you clear your PM inbox please?

And guys, if you are keeping these guys as Norwegian (which I approve of) please use the Norwegian names where applicable; f.e. I see A_Dane has kept a number of Sihtrics rather than Sigtryggs. Also, Olafs should be Olavs as it's the linked version for that culture.

Thanks.

A_Dane · Dec 7, 2012

Ah my bad, I'll change that as well, will probably be 10 minutes or so

EDIT: the only Sihtric I've kept is Sihtric Caech, I don't feel comfortable renaming him tbh

Calgacus · Dec 7, 2012

Are we going to work these guys into succession lists? E.g. d/c_york, c_lincoln, c_dublin, and so on? Sadly there is no file for recording kingship of Northumbria.

A_Dane · Dec 7, 2012

All right, I've modified it now. Olaf/Olav is changed into Gudrød, and all Olaf's been changed into Olav. And I've moved over Ragnall to be a brother of Sihtric Caech & Gudrød.

Havn't added the Olaf you mentioned Calgacus, yet.
gonna check and see if it's all working etc.

EDIT: Also, I guess we could do that? I'm running out of time for today, but I can do it tomorrow if needed be.

EDIT2: All right, they should all be correctly assigned now.

On the whole Sihtric issue: all the characters I've added, should now have Norwegian names and be of Norwegian culture. However, I havn't touched any of the characters, that is already in the game, as I'm not sure whether they should be changed or not.

I see Sleight of Hands point with Sihtric Caech and Olaf Cuaran, as they're both Norwegian culture, but don't have the norwegian names corresponding to it. I can change that as well.

The other Sihtric, and most of the descendants of Sihtric Caech, are Irish cultured, and hence have Irish names, dunno if that should be changed.

Sleight of Hand · Dec 7, 2012

A_Dane said:
EDIT: the only Sihtric I've kept is Sihtric Caech, I don't feel comfortable renaming him tbh

Sigtrygg Caech, as used on the Norwegian Wikipedia.

A_Dane · Dec 7, 2012

just edited my above post: Basically, I think you're right, I'll go change it

Sleight of Hand · Dec 7, 2012

The Irish characters have been renamed (where applicable) in the first post of this thread.

A_Dane · Dec 7, 2012

All right

I've changed the references in my post as well, to avoid further confusion caused by me

Erilaz · Mar 6, 2013

In my opinion it's way better to let the Gall-Goídel dynasty of Ua Ímair keep their 'Goídilized' names, especially when you use SWMH (which adds the Gall-Goídel culture). It actually quite annoyed me when the dynasty was given an overhaul by a recent patch. Check out the mod I'm personally using now, which is SWMH (+graphics) + my own mod, adding characters (and altering stuff back in the case of the Ua Ímair). You'll see the 'count' of the Faroe Islands and expanded Danish families (like Palnatoke, Vagn, Bue, Thorkell the Tall etc.) Link

Also, what the *** is this talk about a connection to the Yngling dynasty? That is all Swedish historians trampling around in knee-high shit, thinking that they can trace their kings back to the early Ynglinga dynasty.

Are you not aware that the most probable ancestor of Sigurðr hringr (and thus also Ragnarr Loðbrók) was Ívarr inn víðfaðmi who expelled the Ynglings from Sweden, making them a Norwegian dynasty when Óláfr trételgja was also driven out of Värmland? (All according to the sagas of course) Moving on, Ívarr is connected to a branch of the Skjöldungar and as thus, indirectly, all the descendants of Ragnarr (i.e. Ívarr inn Beinlausi, Björn Járnsíða, Sigurðr ormr í auga) and ultimately the royal houses of post-pagan Denmark and Sweden (as well as of course the Ua Ímair) were anything but Ynglings, much rather Scyldings/Skjöldungar if a connection to an ancient royal house must be made.

A_Dane · Mar 7, 2013

I'd personally prefer if you typed in a somewhat more... Calm tone to be honest, you have every right to disagree, but I personally find your tone to be quite aggressive, which normally makes people much less inclined to listen to you.
Anyways, I'm not a mod.

When I joined this discussion, I was writing out of memory, which Proved to be faulty, the yngling connection does indeed seem to be incredibly obscure, but there's so many inconsistensies in the sagas and what not, that you can really take your pick...

Just looking through my old copy of Saxo's Gesta Danorum, I found 3, if i recall correctly, persons named Ring, who basically seemed to have been the same person..

That being said, I did change my stance on it, coming to the same conclusion as you have; IF anything they were Skjoldungs... Anyways figuring I'd made enough of a mess, I didn't post anything.

Erilaz · Mar 7, 2013

I'm very sorry for the harsh tone. I was slightly upset that a few secondary sources (being Swedish popular history books) has twisted the ancestry of Ragnarr Loðbrók for the sake of having the House of Munsö being a continued Yngling dynasty. I did not mean to offend anyone by the post, only to come with a new perspective (and perhaps to express my anger ^^) not the least with the upcoming DLC in mind seing as the developers has paid heed to this thread's conclusions before.

And Dane, Saxo is funny in that way. You might think he just added a few to make the line a bit longer. ^^

A_Dane · Mar 7, 2013

No worries, Just thought I'd point out that it's not the best way to get your point across

(and again, I just found it aggressive, can't speak for anyone else)

Anyways, I don't believe anyone has posted anything on the matter here, atleast I have not done so, so with any luck we shouldn't see anything connecting Ivar to the house of Yngling

And well, Saxo tends to murk things up quite a bit to be honest, scratched my head quite a few times while looking into it

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House Uí Ímair

Sleight of Hand

retired modder

Calgacus

General

A_Dane

Eternal pessimist

Sleight of Hand

retired modder

A_Dane

Eternal pessimist

Calgacus

General

A_Dane

Eternal pessimist

Sleight of Hand

retired modder

A_Dane

Eternal pessimist

Sleight of Hand

retired modder

A_Dane

Eternal pessimist

Erilaz

Danskr víkingr

A_Dane

Eternal pessimist

Erilaz

Danskr víkingr

A_Dane

Eternal pessimist