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tywinzo

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If there will be hospitals, any chance that will be related to holy orders? E.g. hospitallers etc. It would be nice to see some mechanics for that.

In general it feels like such things should be provided first hand by church rather than lay?

I'd love seeing Templar houses btw.
 
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AjayAlcos

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If there will be hospitals, any chance that will be related to holy orders? E.g. hospitallers etc. It would be nice to see some mechanics for that.

In general it feels like such things should be provided first hand by church rather than lay?

I'd love seeing Templar houses btw.
I assume they'll be adding "hospitals/hospices/inns" as part of their get sick and die DLC. If they don't I'm going to be a sad, sad crab :(
 
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tywinzo

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I hope so too. And that it's a religious thing with clerics and priests (and maybe some cases some mystic layman), not just any random courtier with high learning. In my mind, it would be the knowledge of clerics and so that you consult for such matters. They'd manage every other part of your life with birth, youth, marriage, death, etc, etc. It seems like they'd be the default pick in this case too.
 

DreadLindwyrm

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I hope so too. And that it's a religious thing with clerics and priests (and maybe some cases some mystic layman), not just any random courtier with high learning. In my mind, it would be the knowledge of clerics and so that you consult for such matters. They'd manage every other part of your life with birth, youth, marriage, death, etc, etc. It seems like they'd be the default pick in this case too.

Possibly. For the most part hospitals as we know them are an outgrowth of alms houses and the infirmaries provided by monks and nuns. Doctors would be trained in the later part of the CKII period at universities (themselves outgrowths of church teaching facilities), and usually the students and masters at the universities would be in minor orders (as opposed to being full priests, and in major orders).

However, many of these doctors were very much secular, and certainly not monastic or full churchmen. Churchmen would also explicitly be barred from performing certain types of medical intervention (at least in Christian lands) as they were not permitted to shed blood. They might however employ a barber-surgeon to do anything involving blood.
 
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tywinzo

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That's more than I know. Thanks for sharing. It makes sense that they weren't perhaps monastic themselves, but going through from institutions that are outgrowths of it. It would be interesting to know more if you have some good sources. From what I know, nearly all christian holy orders started as hospitals with non-military methods before they could evolve into using force.

I can't help thinking that even to this day, many hospitals have christian ties, sometimes part of the name (how many hospitals don't start with "Saint XXX's.." and similiar), sometimes rooted in its foundation with clear traces visible today.

I'm also curious if the hospital symbol itself (a cross) originates from the christian cross.
 
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tywinzo

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Interesting quotes from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_health_care#Middle_Ages:

It was common for monks and clerics to practice medicine and medical students in northern European universities often took minor Holy orders. Mediaeval hospitals had a strongly Christian ethos, and were, in the words of historian of medicine Roy Porter, "religious foundations through and through", ...

..In keeping with the Benedictine rule that the care of the sick be placed above all other duties, monasteries were the key medical care providers prior to 1300. Most monasteries offered shelter for pilgrims and an infirmary for sick monks, while separate hospitals were founded for the public...

...Crusader orders established several new traditions of Catholic medical care.[24] The famous Knights Hospitaller arose as a group of individuals associated with an Amalfitan hospital in Jerusalem, which was built to provide care for poor, sick or injured pilgrims to the Holy Land...

...Small hospitals for pilgrims sprung up in the West during the early Middle Ages, but by the latter section of the period had grown more substantial, with hospitals founded for lepers, pilgrims, the sick, aged and poor. Milan, Siena, Paris and Florence had numerous and large hospitals. "Within hospitals walls", wrote Porter, "the Christian ethos was all pervasive"....
 
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gdj

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There is an event for a hospital if you are sick and on a pilgrimage. It may even heal you from the "great pox". Other than that, there is nothing in the game...yet.
 

SigurdStormhand

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I hope they add sanitation buildings, not just hospitals but sewers and Aquaducts. In the CM start some former Roman cities, and most of the Byzantine Empire should still have working Aquaducts and in the later medieval period people starting feeding water into cities via lead pipes.

It wasn't all drinking river water and dumping chamber pots in the street (pretty sure that was usually a crime in England anyway).
 

Quaade

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SigurdStormhand

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Hehe... I just leave that stand by itself :p

Sorry?

If you're referring to lead poisoning it was certainly a prob;em but the reality is that if you drank river water you were likely to die before the residual lead might have even made you seriously ill - and we know these systems were used for centuries in cities like Exeter, where I live.
 
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AjayAlcos

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Sorry?

If you're referring to lead poisoning it was certainly a prob;em but the reality is that if you drank river water you were likely to die before the residual lead might have even made you seriously ill - and we know these systems were used for centuries in cities like Exeter, where I live.
Also. A lot of people usually ate from those old pewter dishes, which contained lead. So any watery foods (i.e. tomatoes, grapes) eaten from those dishes would have liquids mixing with the pewter and eventually lead to illness. That's why people thought tomatoes were poisonous back then sigh...
 

DreadLindwyrm

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If I remember correctly
Also. A lot of people usually ate from those old pewter dishes, which contained lead. So any watery foods (i.e. tomatoes, grapes) eaten from those dishes would have liquids mixing with the pewter and eventually lead to illness. That's why people thought tomatoes were poisonous back then sigh...

Not entirely - tomatoes are a variety of Nightshade, and several of the early cultivars look like larger versions of deadly and woody nightshade. Not to mention that tomatoes are meso-american in origin, and so wouldn't be that relevant to CKII culture...

After all, if your suggestion were true, then people would have thought that grapes (and especially wines) were poisonous. It isn't even watery foods that would lift lead into the food - it's *acidic* foods.
 

Quaade

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Sorry?

If you're referring to lead poisoning it was certainly a prob;em but the reality is that if you drank river water you were likely to die before the residual lead might have even made you seriously ill - and we know these systems were used for centuries in cities like Exeter, where I live.
It was the lead I was refering to, since you based your argument on health and lead ;-) It was just a funny way of putting it :p
 

Quaade

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Mild Lead Poisoning vs Dyesantry.

Matter of perspective.
It´s still funny how they switched one bad thing with another :) but well... evolution in all it´s glory, how are we else to learn :)
 

AjayAlcos

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but well... evolution in all it´s glory, how are we else to learn :)
An efficient, effective and standardised education system?
 

Quaade

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An efficient, effective and standardised education system?
Trial and error baby, trial by fire ;-) or sickness in this case...
 

AjayAlcos

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