Hosokawa frustration

[rubikoob]

So I started up Sengoku for the first time and decided to pick an easy clan leader for my first game so that I could get used to the game mechanics. Clicking around and looking at the easy/hard bar, I saw that Hosokawa was about as far to the easy side as it went. So, off I went.

I get in game and discover that I'm at war with a ton of clans, whose territory virtually encircles mine. Despite this, I was able to hold my ground pretty well and even expand a little bit at first.

However, as the years passed things got harder rather than easier. My enemies were throwing huge stacks of troops at me from every direction and I just didn't have enough units to fight them all. So I started looking around closely, and noticed that my three main enemies, the Ouchi, the Yamana, and the Takeda, were each at war only with me, and no one else. Together they had something like 25% of Japan, while I had about 13%.

For the next 20 years I tried everything I could think of. None of them would discuss peace of any kind, not even subjugation. I tried plots against each of them frequently, but despite endless searching I could never find a single person to join my plot. Meanwhile I was having to play cat-and-mouse inside my own territory because each of these clans had a stack of 6k-10k troops while I could only consistently field one such stack. I sent my master of the guard to sow discontent in the Yamana heir and after 15 years I finally got an event which claimed to give a -10 opinion modifier... but that modifier never actually showed up on the target character's info.

Eventually Yamana put together over 20k troops divided between a few stacks and chain-assaulted its way through the core of my territory, and I quit in frustration.

So, what should I have done? I'm really frustrated, because I know each of those clans started at war with more than just me, which means they must have made a lot of peace deals with other clans. They outright refused peace with me. Why?

Anyway. I'm going to try again, but I'm not sure if I'll try Hosokawa again or maybe somebody in a nice corner like Shimazu or Nanbu.

Any advice on how not to get viciously dogpiled as Hosokawa?

 

[deoved]

You ruin your Clan?
And now tries to petition us?
Commit seppuku at once!


Crappy english

 

[Enravota]

It's a trap! Hosokawa is not easy, it is actually the (much more) harder side in the Ōnin war. You do have some allies but all are more or less weak and encircled by enemies. Start as a more easy clan, till you learn the ropes at least.

 

[Meanmanturbo]

So I started up Sengoku for the first time and decided to pick an easy clan leader for my first game so that I could get used to the game mechanics. Clicking around and looking at the easy/hard bar, I saw that Hosokawa was about as far to the easy side as it went. So, off I went.

I get in game and discover that I'm at war with a ton of clans, whose territory virtually encircles mine. Despite this, I was able to hold my ground pretty well and even expand a little bit at first.

However, as the years passed things got harder rather than easier. My enemies were throwing huge stacks of troops at me from every direction and I just didn't have enough units to fight them all. So I started looking around closely, and noticed that my three main enemies, the Ouchi, the Yamana, and the Takeda, were each at war only with me, and no one else. Together they had something like 25% of Japan, while I had about 13%.

For the next 20 years I tried everything I could think of. None of them would discuss peace of any kind, not even subjugation. I tried plots against each of them frequently, but despite endless searching I could never find a single person to join my plot. Meanwhile I was having to play cat-and-mouse inside my own territory because each of these clans had a stack of 6k-10k troops while I could only consistently field one such stack. I sent my master of the guard to sow discontent in the Yamana heir and after 15 years I finally got an event which claimed to give a -10 opinion modifier... but that modifier never actually showed up on the target character's info.

Eventually Yamana put together over 20k troops divided between a few stacks and chain-assaulted its way through the core of my territory, and I quit in frustration.

So, what should I have done? I'm really frustrated, because I know each of those clans started at war with more than just me, which means they must have made a lot of peace deals with other clans. They outright refused peace with me. Why?

Anyway. I'm going to try again, but I'm not sure if I'll try Hosokawa again or maybe somebody in a nice corner like Shimazu or Nanbu.

Any advice on how not to get viciously dogpiled as Hosokawa?

Well, the difficulty graph can be misleading since it is based on a simple calculation taking only power, basically the amount of provinces controlled, into account. It does not take into consideration the strategic position of the clan. I'm all for Shimazu though, they are great fun Just be sure to use the ninja missions as often as possible to destroy the ouchis honor so they don't eat you before you are big enough

 

[rubikoob]

Well, the difficulty graph can be misleading since it is based on a simple calculation taking only power, basically the amount of provinces controlled, into account. It does not take into consideration the strategic position of the clan. I'm all for Shimazu though, they are great fun Just be sure to use the ninja missions as often as possible to destroy the ouchis honor so they don't eat you before you are big enough

Thanks for the advice. I suspected something like that was going on with the difficulty graph. I'm still interested in finding out what to do in a situation where your enemies are individually weaker but together much stronger than you. Being stronger than an enemy seems to impose a large malus on the chances that a third party will join your plot against them.

 

[marktse]

Acutally it is not easy to use any clan in the middle part of japan.

 

[Enravota]

Acutally it is not easy to use any clan in the middle part of japan.

+1. The Hosokawa are especially FUBAR due to being spread out all over the place, at war at the beginning and surrounded by enemies.

 

[gord96]

Yeah. Shimazu is a great starting clan. You can conquer all of Kyushu without much worry from the big clans.

 

[Nefaro]

Also remember to disband your levies (within your own territory) when they get low and their home province has regenerated more levy soldiers.

Then re-mobilize them. This is how reinforcements work in Sengoku for levies. Many people don't realize it.

 

[unmerged(378508)]

Generally, in any strategy game where you are fighting multiple opponents that are weaker than you individually, the key is to focus on one enemy at a time, eliminate, and repeat.

Just booted it up, and it does look hard. All that red, and stuck in the middle. Ouchi and Kamo have lots of enemies, but you're the only one nearby.

But there seems to be quite a few split clans. Not sure of the best way to handle that. On one hand, if you kill the hostile faction, you've one less enemy. But once you kill the hostile faction, the Clan's civil war is over, and they'll likely exit the war.

 

[rubikoob]

I guess my feedback from this experience, then, is that the difficulty slider on the new game selection page is pretty misleading. Perhaps the game could suggest some good options for new players.

 

[soran]

ya, the hosokawa side is doomed, except for hosokawa themselves, i tried several onyu-takeda games, all ended in utter failure, except my newest one, where i managed to survive mainly because hosokawa decided to chew out the rokkaku! DIE ROKKAKU DIE! anyways, i expanded into Echizen and Omi provinces and even took some land in Mino, but now, i reached a point where Oda who seperated from Shiba declare war on me.

the Kyogoku are reduced to a one province clan, Imizu-Hatakeyama are surviving, Togashi aren't doing bad either for a change. But none of my allies have a serious standing army, except for Hosokawa.

but check this out, here's my situation:

my army's numbered in 4k total, and the oda is somehow managing to field out 6k+ so it's putting me in a really bad position, specially since Asakura in Echizen joined Oda when they split from Shiba.

And the Imizu-Hatakeyama tried to plot against me... so even amongst my allies, i'm quite the eyesore. and to make it worst, Hosokawa has about 17% of Japan and managing to chew out the Yamana & Takeda & Ouchi front, specially with Ouchi getting a plot on them by the various clans in Kyuushu.

I'm torn as how to act, when i load my game, i have two armies sieging a province of Toki and one of Rokkaku and Oda jumping into the mix totally throws my army into chaos, since if i bring my armies to attack them, Rokkaku take this chance to retake some provinces in Omi.

and if I keep attacking Rokkaku, Oda will seize Echizen where my best provinces are...

 

[unmerged(51171)]

I tried Ouchi my first time out and it's pretty easy. The key is to ignore the Onin War until Hosokawa and Kyogoku cut through your Yamana and Takeda "allies" to your border. Then grab as much of the captured Takeda and Yamana land as you can. If any Takedan provinces are still in original hands, declare war on them and take those too. Repeat for Yamana - they should be absolutely decimated at this point.

Rokkaku, Isshiki and Hatakeyama will keep eastern Hosokawa at bay while you eat far western Honshu. I got as far as the Kato-Kaya line before asking everyone for peace ... which they all granted. It was a lot easier to deal with Kyushu after that.

 

[Nefaro]

I guess my feedback from this experience, then, is that the difficulty slider on the new game selection page is pretty misleading. Perhaps the game could suggest some good options for new players.

I saw a bug report saying that the difficulty slider had no effect, currently.